LGB MOGUL LOCOMOTIVES PARTS REPLACEMENT PROJECT

[LGB333]

For LGB Mogul Steamer Hobbyists: I'm working with a university engineering school to redesign Pre-Marklin (2006 and earlier) the Mogul's large lead weight in the boiler to accommodate installation of a Massoth Round Boiler DCC Pulsed Smoker. To install a smoker in one of these Moguls for a customer, I must cut off the front half of the large lead weight and cut the removed portion into pieces and then redistribute them inside the smokebox and boiler......a hazardous, time-consuming task. Once I get the redesigned weight mold, I will recast the weights and make them available to hobbyists on my Website.

I'm also getting the Mogul Tender's water bunker filler cap 3D-reproduced. These caps are difficult to find, not available from the Marklin/LGB stock system, and only used caps are sometimes listed for sale on eBay. I hope to have the redesigned lead weights and tender filler caps available in the June timeframe.

 

[Jeff H]

Hi Tom,

Let us know how the development progresses. I would be interested in tackling a project to put a Massoth pulsed smoker in one of my LGB Moguls but I don't trust my skills to deal with reconfiguring the lead weight, not to mention some of the smoke boxes are nearly impossible to separate from the boiler.

You're right about the spare parts situation with the moguls. I just bought one of the later generation LGB Moguls (w/MTS) for the purpose of cannibalizing it for spare parts for my other moguls. The only problem is that it's starting to grow on me and now I'm thinking about keeping and restoring it. It's the 29192 Santa Fe mogul which is unique in that it has the old-style look, wood tender and balloon stack, but also the more modern boiler piping and fittings.

 

[LGB333]

The original LGB company glued the smoke boxes onto the boiler. Below is the tool I use with a small hammer to break the old glue seals, lots of tedious, detailed work. Since LGB Moguls are one of the most popular locomotives used by USA hobbyists, my Website lists many of the LGB Mogul parts I've gotten from parts suppliers in Germany, and also from Marklin for their produced Moguls. Luckily many of the Marklin-made parts will fit the older LGB-produced Moguls such as the three sets of Wheels, leading front wheels, etc. Marklin places a parts diagram in their User Guides instead of offering the LGB Parts Diagrams like LGB used to publish. And most of the parts on Marklin parts diagrams are not numbered and unfortunately can't be ordered, even for their currently produced locomotives.

 

[LGB333]

Hi Tom,

Let us know how the development progresses. I would be interested in tackling a project to put a Massoth pulsed smoker in one of my LGB Moguls but I don't trust my skills to deal with reconfiguring the lead weight, not to mention some of the smoke boxes are nearly impossible to separate from the boiler.

You're right about the spare parts situation with the moguls. I just bought one of the later generation LGB Moguls (w/MTS) for the purpose of cannibalizing it for spare parts for my other moguls. The only problem is that it's starting to grow on me and now I'm thinking about keeping and restoring it. It's the 29192 Santa Fe mogul which is unique in that it has the old-style look, wood tender and balloon stack, but also the more modern boiler piping and fittings.

By the way, for you LGB hobbyist who have Marklin-produced Moguls, the latest LGB 20283 latest model or earlier, they are two pounds less weight than the original LGB-produced models: Five pounds v. seven pounds. This weight loss can sometime cause traction and pulling power issues. Marklin redesigned the older Mogul lead weights to accommodate the installation of a factory-installed pulse smoker, a good thing, and they also no longer glue the smoke box onto the boiler, another good thing. But German environmental regulations also required them to switch from using lead to a pot-metal weight. So, the reduced size of the weight combined along with the less dense pot-metal causes the two pound weight loss. I also plan to get these pot-metal Mogul weights redesigned with more bulk and then recast in lead to bring up the weight of the newer Moguls closer to the seven pounds weight. LGB Moguls produced about 25 Mogul models during 1985 - 2005 when Ernst Paul Lehmann Patentwerk when out of business.......Marklin bought the LGB company rights in 2006. I'll keep everyone posted on status of these efforts.

 

[LGB333]

Hi Tom,

Let us know how the development progresses. I would be interested in tackling a project to put a Massoth pulsed smoker in one of my LGB Moguls but I don't trust my skills to deal with reconfiguring the lead weight, not to mention some of the smoke boxes are nearly impossible to separate from the boiler.

You're right about the spare parts situation with the moguls. I just bought one of the later generation LGB Moguls (w/MTS) for the purpose of cannibalizing it for spare parts for my other moguls. The only problem is that it's starting to grow on me and now I'm thinking about keeping and restoring it. It's the 29192 Santa Fe mogul which is unique in that it has the old-style look, wood tender and balloon stack, but also the more modern boiler piping and fittings.

Regarding the parts support for LGB Moguls, Marklin doesn't make available many of the major parts for their produced Moguls. For example, I recently tried to order some replacement boilers for their latest produced LGB 20283 Mogul, but they're no longer available at Marklin's LGB factory in Hungry. But they do have some parts available such as all the wheels sets and these will work with the older LGB-produced Moguls. Since the LGB Moguls are one of the most popular LGB locomotives used by USA hobbyists, I get lots of customers' repair and/or DCC sound decoder install requests for LGB Moguls. So I'm trying to stock most of the major Mogul parts on my Website, but many parts I must order from third-party suppliers in Germany.

 

[PhilP]

No one can stop us as individuals, getting or casting lead weights..

But it is frowned upon, in almost every field it is used in.

PhilP

 

[LGB333]

No one can stop us as individuals, getting or casting lead weights..

But it is frowned upon, in almost every field it is used in.

PhilP

PhilP - I'm curious, who's frowning about it in the UK? A lot of folks in the USA cast lead for ammunition and fishing weights. I know it's hazardous stuff but doable if using safety handling precautions. And quite frankly, at least in the USA, it's much more hazardous driving on our public roads with all the nuts or unexperienced drivers than casting lead!

 

[PhilP]

Being removed from nearly every product. - Worldwide.

Lead fishing weights. - Ditto for divers 'lead' shot.
Paint. - Years ago. Same for makeup.
Reduced (and being reduced?) in petrol (gas).
Plumbing..
We don't have such an infatuation, with small-arms, here in the UK.
There are even substitutes for lead flashing, available.

PhilP

 

[JimmyB]

REACH regulations, EU and UK law

UK REACH: UK REACH Explained

www.hse.gov.uk

 

[LGB333]

REACH regulations, EU and UK law

UK REACH: UK REACH Explained

www.hse.gov.uk

Wow, since things are so strict on use of lead in the UK, why are you allowed to even own the older LGB locomotives all with lead weights inside?

 

[PhilP]

A little like asbestos products in buildings..
Under normal use, you can't get to it.. If you know it is there (in a building) then it should be marked, as such.

We had an 'asbestos register' for the BBC building I worked in.. If we ran a new route for cables, anything we weren't sure of, had to be tested. - This could delay work..

We were also tested for lung function, as we worked with tin/lead solders, initially.
It is Theoretically illegal to use leaded solder, except for certain types of equipment.

Of course, a roll of solder, lasts most people years, so there is a lot it about..

Both of our properties, still have lead pipes, bringing in the potable water supply, from the cast iron water mains.

PhilP

 

[JimmyB]

Wow, since things are so strict on use of lead in the UK, why are you allowed to even own the older LGB locomotives all with lead weights inside?

Just about the whole of Europe!!

 

[Paul M]

We still have an asbestos water tank in the loft. Without taking of the roof, it's impossible to get out without breaking it up,so it's staying. As PhilP says, it's only dangerous if you cut or break it.

 

[LGB333]

Hi Tom,

Let us know how the development progresses. I would be interested in tackling a project to put a Massoth pulsed smoker in one of my LGB Moguls but I don't trust my skills to deal with reconfiguring the lead weight, not to mention some of the smoke boxes are nearly impossible to separate from the boiler.

The university engineering class that's assigned to my LGB Mogul weight redesign project is making excellent progress. They've redesigned the older LGB-produced Mogul lead weights to accommodate installation of a Massoth pulsed smoker while also maintaining the same original weight. They've designed a grove in the front lip of the weight so the pulsed smoker can be mounted on it instead of using a separate smoker plate like I use in my installations. They're now in the process of developing the casting molds for both the redesigned boiler weight and also the motor block weights and will then test them out by casting the parts in lead. Once they've completed the project, they will ship the molds to me for my use in producing the weights which I'll then post for sale on my Website. This small team of four senior mechanical engineering students, with expert oversight by the instructor who also happens to be an LGB Trains hobbyist, are doing a fantastic engineering effort!

 

[PhilP]

I am a little surprised you are using lead?
I was under the impression its use was frowned upon, in commercial products.

PhilP

 

[LGB333]

I am a little surprised you are using lead?
I was under the impression its use was frowned upon, in commercial products.

PhilP

In the USA and in the State of Virginia, there's no prohibition of using lead.

Do you have some other metal alloy to suggest to use that can be melted down and cast into a mold for the redesigned weight in an LGB Mogul locomotive? I don't know what would be available and provide the same or similar mass weight as lead?

 

[a98087]

In the OO//Ho scales mazak is commonly for the heavy motor blocks,

It all comes down to cost and metal availability

This table can help with densities but some of the denser metals are quite expensive and exotic

Densities of Metals and Elements Table

Density is defined as the mass per unit volume. Densities of Metals and Elements Table

www.engineersedge.com

Dan

 

[Greg Elmassian]

If you have the money, use tungsten, comes in powdered form also, heavier than lead...

 

[LGB333]

Status Update: I received the final presentation on the university class project to redesign the LGB-produced Mogul lead weights. They had cast the redesigned weight using the silicone molds they made with successful results. The university will ship me the Mogul locomotive parts borrowed from me and the molds. They recommended graphite molds over the silicone for better stability and longevity but these would have to be machined someplace. After realizing how timeconsuming and challenging the process is to melt the lead and then cast the weights into these molds, I'm not likely to try doing it myself. Instead I'll try to find a vendor in my area to do it for me which may be cost prohibitive. Instead I might try finding a vendor in Mexico where the labor costs are a lot less.