LGB 70580 starter set Wangerooge diesel - a review

whatlep

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German retailers are now shipping LGB's 70580 starter set and several are willing to split the 0-6-0 Wangerooge shunting loco from it. Mine came from http://www.modell-land.de/ < Link To www.modell-land.de for Euros 199 (plus Euros 18 P&P to most of Western Europe). About GBP179 at today's exchange rate of Euros 1.21 to the pound. Until this set, the shunter has only been available in digital form with a price tag of around GBP400. So possibly a bargain to be had! Here's a brief review of what you get.

First impressions are very positive. The loco is beautifully finished with crisp, clean printing throughout.
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The driver's cab contains a detailed control stand and the usual analogue lights/motor control switch, accessed through the left-hand side door.
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Detail parts, such as hand holds and the wheel counterweights can only be described as exquisite. Just look at the mouldings for the bearing oil top-up port on the connecting rods! I was very impressed
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That said, both the tool boxes appeared to be slightly out of line with the hood's sides and one of the front lights needed to be pushed home into its housing. Easily rectified by gentle hand pressure. In addition, the front coupler loop (there is no facility to attach a hook at this end) was rather "floppy", suggesting a screw which needs further tightening. All minor stuff, but perhaps indicative of less than perfect quality control as we will see in a while.

Turning the loco over, the mechanism is immediately recognisable as that first developed for the LGB 2062 series of 0-6-0 shunters, but with an extension piece for the Wangerooge's jackshaft drive.
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Someone has gone to the trouble of milling out the baseplate mould to erase most, but not all, traces of its LGB origins!
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On analogue, the loco ran OK though a little stiffly. We'll come back to that too. Directional lighting is provided, plus a cab light which is on irrepsective of which headlights are on. If analogue is all you need, the loco would be perfectly usable immediately, but I'd recommend you read on as this is where things start to get interesting!
 

whatlep

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Right - the fun bit: dismantling the beastie to see what's inside and get the thing decently DCCed!

Going back underneath the loco, the first and fourth screws from the front release the chassis block from the body, leaving the very neat mechanism on its own.
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I was a bit surprised at this point to find that the power connector had parted from the chassis. Some gentle probing proved that the lead was trapped somewhere inside the body. Hmmm.

Remember I said the loco ran a little stiffly out of the box? Well, in the interests of science I removed the remaining three screws from the baseplate and opened up the gearbox. WARNING: be careful if you do this and make sure that the quartering is EXACTLY right when you reassemble everything. Even one cog out on either drive axle will cause major problems! If in doubt, don't remove the baseplate!

Absolutely standard 2062 vintage stuff, updated for a 4-pin "D" gearbox, including the old-style 1980s skate holders/ power feeds which make replacing the skates a real pain involving further dismantling. Oh well....
As usual, power pickup is off all wheels, plus the skates. The middle axle "floats" by means of the springs visible around the motor, ensuring both good pickup and the ability to round R1 (600mm radius) curves. I have removed one of the two metal power "bus bars" to make the photos clearer.
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Remember in the first post I mentioned that the loco ran a little stiffly? There was very little grease at all on the gears. Adding a little greatly improved the loco's performance at a stroke. Quality control.....
With the mechanism removed, the loco body and running plate are exposed.
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The body is removed from the running plate by unscrewing four small screws, one by each of the outer driving wheels.
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With the body and running plate separated we have this magnificent spectacle. Look at all that lovely weight!
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Unscrewing two screws allows the front weight to be removed, exposing the single screw which secures the front coupling loop. That got tightened. The loop is still not completely firm, but it's better than it was ex-factory. Apologies for the photo quality.
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Now we're ready to look inside the body and figure out how to get a DCC chip fitted....
 

vasim

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whatlep

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vasim said:
Completely wrong! I guess that Marklin didn't get the moulds for the correct Wangerooge cab. LGB did a proper Wangerooge version with the correct type of modified cab as their first release and the real loco looks like this - http://www.inselbahn.de/index.php?nav=1400932&lang=1&file=gmdr_4378_51&action=image ( larger profiled windscreens and extra cab side windows being the most obvious.

Well there you go. An LGB model which isn't like its prototype. The same as most of my LGB Mallets! However, as a piece of modelling, the bodywork remains very nice!

Anyway, as I was saying, into the body we go:
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The electrics are straightforward. A single main board - for a twin motored loco (!) - with individual mini-CT connectors for each light and the multi-purpose rear socket, plus large plugs for the analogue switch and motor connection and the 10-pin type of DCC interface. I am torn about the use of this board. It's pretty simple electrically - a 5-volt regulation circuit and diodes for the headlights is about it - but not really apporpriate for this loco for several reasons. Obviously it's a 2-motor board, though I can see it makes sense in purchasing and stores terms to use just one type of board. More pertinently, the board's positioning and the 10-pin DCC interface make it much harder to use a single-motor DCC chip. The loco's instruction manual reveals a lack of joined-up thinking chez Marklin. It specifically refers to going DCC with a 1 amp chip, but then recommends using an LGB 55027 (RRP 99.95 Euros!) which is a 3 amp chip for 2-motor locos! The cynic in me can't help wondering if Marklin hope that they can make a few more quid than is really necessary from the unaware installing 55027s.

Anyway, back to the loco. The motor cable had indeed been trapped inside the body when assembled, crushing the cable and exposing one wire as can be seen here:
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Insulating tape applied, it was time to figure out what chip to use. The space is extremely tight. Nowhere is there more than 52mm width or length and depth is restricted severely too. As a 55027 is 55mm long using the recommended chip is pretty tricky. Luckily, a Massoth XL comes supplied with the required interface and is designed to have the extremities of the circuit board removed to fit in tight spaces. It is the ideal chip for the job and cheaper than a 55027 too.

Before installing the chip, it's prudent to cover the metal plate to which the existing main board fits in insulating tape and do likewise to the area of weight which will be underneath the chip. That done, the chip can just be squeezed in between the cab wall and the factory main board. It works best to have the XL chip aligned so the cables exit toward the cab. They then naturally form a loom along one side of the loco and get plugged into the main board. The loom is best secured to one side of the loco with yet more insulating tape to ensure no wires get trapped by the weight when the body is reattached to the running board. My loco is also fitted with a Massoth micro cap power buffer to ensure smoother running. That is hidden at the front of the loco in the spaces presumably intended for a loudspeaker.
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Everything done, screwing everything back together is very straightforward, though care needs to be taken to avoid doing what the factory did and trapping the main power cable between body and running plate.

So, in summary, an attractive loco - albeit perhaps not an accurate model of the prototype - with bags of detail and, I suspect, hauling power. External finish to a very high standard, but some of the assembly reveals a lack of quality control at Marklin. DCC installation reasonably straightforward. All in all a pleasing addition to my loco fleet and at around GBP180 for analogue or GBP235 for digital excellent value by today's standards. I'd give it 8 out of 10 and a thumbs up. :clap:
 

whatlep

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Stainzmeister said:
Thanks for the review Peter. :D
One of my favourite shunting locos.

Personnally, when I chip a loco, I strip out the old board completely, unless its a 20212 Stainz which takes a plug in 55021.

I take it the black cylindrical item behind the front grille is a sound box for a speaker ?
Hi Paul. Yes, I often strip out the electrics on older locos too, but on the more recent ones the mini-CT plugs and their very fine wires give my ham-fisted paws problems. Since there isn't a huge price difference between the Massoth L and XL, I was happy to go with the XL and make life easy.

I think the black item is intended as the speaker attachment point, judging by its internal shape. Not sure if it could be honestly described as a sound box, but I know what you mean.
 

yb281

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whatlep said:
Stainzmeister said:
Thanks for the review Peter. :D
One of my favourite shunting locos.

Personnally, when I chip a loco, I strip out the old board completely, unless its a 20212 Stainz which takes a plug in 55021.

I take it the black cylindrical item behind the front grille is a sound box for a speaker ?
Hi Paul. Yes, I often strip out the electrics on older locos too, but on the more recent ones the mini-CT plugs and their very fine wires give my ham-fisted paws problems. Since there isn't a huge price difference between the Massoth L and XL, I was happy to go with the XL and make life easy.

I think the black item is intended as the speaker attachment point, judging by its internal shape. Not sure if it could be honestly described as a sound box, but I know what you mean.
Yes, if it's the same as the original Wangerooge diesel (like mine), that black item is a mounting for a Massoth speaker - just fits straight in.
 

jameshilton

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vasim said:
Completely wrong! I guess that Marklin didn't get the moulds for the correct Wangerooge cab. LGB did a proper Wangerooge version with the correct type of modified cab as their first release and the real loco looks like this - http://www.inselbahn.de/index.php?nav=1400932&lang=1&file=gmdr_4378_51&action=image ( larger profiled windscreens and extra cab side windows being the most obvious.

Vanessa - not true!
When first on the island, the HF130 wasn't rebuilt (although the coupling rod arrangements were different). This is what the new starter set one is based on...
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Obviously, later, DB rebuilt her with larger cab windows...
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So the new model is right - and I've got the whole set on order through a UK supplier, though I'm beginning to wish I'd ordered direct from Germany now, as I'm itching to get my hands on it - oh well, at least I'm supporting the UK G-scale industry :)

Thanks for the review Peter - I shall let people know if my version has the same issues when it arrives. I know Bruce has one as well.
 

bunnyrabbit03

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Based on the Maerklin label on the gear box I would guess it is Made in Hungary. The Made in China production still has the old-style golden LGB quality control labels. Also, Maerklin has announced that they are shifting production back to Europe.
 

whatlep

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jameshilton said:
Oh and Peter, where is it made? For the price of the complete set, it's GOT to be China hasn't it? Might explain the grease issue?

I have no idea. As the loco was split from a set, there's no guidance on it and there's nothing which says where the stuff was made in the paperwork I've had.
 

vasim

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Well there you go. An LGB model which isn't like its prototype
Misquoted again as usual. I was just saying that LGB HAD the parts to do the cab properley, but haven't. So they obviously haven't researched it properley or don't have access to that mould anymore.
James: The real loco did start off as a standard box cab as modelled but Marklin have numbered it as later in its life - so it IS wrong and would suggest that their research was sloppy. If a model can't be done properley then it would be best not released at all. Why make a wrong model when the parts are available to make it right?
 

Woderwick

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Nice Peter, but why oh why do LGB insist on fitting those ghastly slotted screws on the axle ends ? IMO it spoils what would be a nice loco, I would replace with some nice cap screws with a discrete hex.
 

whatlep

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vasim said:
Well there you go. An LGB model which isn't like its prototype
Misquoted again as usual. I was just saying that LGB HAD the parts to do the cab properley, but haven't. So they obviously haven't researched it properley or don't have access to that mould anymore.
James: The real loco did start off as a standard box cab as modelled but Marklin have numbered it as later in its life - so it IS wrong and would suggest that their research was sloppy. If a model can't be done properley then it would be best not released at all. Why make a wrong model when the parts are available to make it right?

I agree, you have misquoted my previous comment, whereas I quoted yours in full. Never mind : I forgive you. :D

This juvenilia aside, others may wonder what Vasim is on about. Well, LGB produced a version of this loco as product 21590. The item was available 2005-2007 and - if we're being honest - isn't that close to the prototype either, though the cab has the right number of windows! See the 21590 against the prototype on the same page here: http://www.lgb-bibliothek.info/html/21590.html

I suspect Marklin have a rather good research department given the detail on their HO scale models, but, for whatever reason, used the moulds they have for the 70580 set's loco. LGB had "form" in this area for many years. Of my various LGB Mallets only the first, 1980s vintage SEG version (catalogue number 2085D/20851) is close to prototype accuracy. All the rest (Brohltal, 99201, Orient Express & French versions) are just shadows of the real things. Does it worry me? Not a jot. Since I inhabit a small cental European land with ostrich-plumed noblemen and invisible ballast to escape the stresses of everyday existence, having the wrong number on a loco is the least of my problems in life. :confused:

Bottom line: if the wrong cab ruins the model for you, then you won't buy it. If, like me, you can appreciate the loco as an attractive model at a very decent price, you will. I suggest you should!
 

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whatlep said:
.......... Bottom line: if the wrong cab ruins the model for you, then you won't buy it. If, like me, you can appreciate the loco as an attractive model at a very decent price, you will. I suggest you should!

Well said, Peter, have 5 stars.... :D
Jon.
 

bunnyrabbit03

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Zerogee said:
whatlep said:
.......... Bottom line: if the wrong cab ruins the model for you, then you won't buy it. If, like me, you can appreciate the loco as an attractive model at a very decent price, you will. I suggest you should!

Well said, Peter, have 5 stars.... :D
Jon.

From me, too ;)
 

dutchelm

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Already having a Wangerooge loco & coaches I wasn't interested in buying another loco. However when first seeing the set I was disappointed the flat wagons were not available separately. When finding them available separately on the Modell Land site they became a must have to complete the train. The actual wagons do not seem to resemble any prototype but at viewing distance who cares. The only thing missing are the luggage carts. Has anyone any suggestions.
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hornbeam

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Wonder if uk retailers will split the set? Great review thank you. At that price I may end up getting it instead of an accucraft shunter.
 

AshleyH

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The documentation in the set is the standard format that Märklin use for their HO product line as well, the black and white leaflets often look little more than photocopies.
So it is not a case of cheapening it down for this set, I am afraid last years Ge 4/4 III Lanxess also came with such a manual.
 

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AshleyH said:
The documentation in the set is the standard format that Märklin use for their HO product line as well, the black and white leaflets often look little more than photocopies.
So it is not a case of cheapening it down for this set, I am afraid last years Ge 4/4 III Lanxess also came with such a manual.

As did the new HSB KoF.... this is what we'll get from now on, the days of the glossy LGB booklets are gone.

Jon.