LGB 36574 Rio Grande Dome Car

[kim]

Picked this item up on Saturday from Top Slots and Trains, it arrived a month or so ago but I haven't had the chance to get upto Fleetwood. Anyway, tbis is the usual Marklin lgb standard that you expect apart from one, to my mind, major error that I'll come to shortly. The coach itself has existed in many guises over the years and it is big, I have put 10' curves in to accomodate the full train, the mouldings are superb, the paint work is crisp and the lettering/numbering is perfect. It is fitted with one axle of ball bearing pick ups on each bogie and the lighting is switchable and excellent and the car just rolls away on the slightest gradient. The only extra in the box is the usual extra hook and spring. This car is expensive so I am slightly peeved about the one fault I have found, the seats in the observation deck face the wrong way!! As you can see from the picks the plastic people would have to climb over the seat back at one end whereas there is a load of space at the other. I have compared this with pics of earlier releases amd the seats in tbose are the reverse of this one. I have e-mailed Marklin lgb about this and if you know anyone who has this car ask them to check, it may only be a batch problem rather than across the full production. A quick edit on this one, looking at the seat fixings the seats not only need reversing but transferring to the opposite sides, but looking again the car wou!d still not match the lgb pic on the box end where the seats face the long end of the car whereas with my fix they would face the short end. Perhaps move the seats then turn the full deck round.........!!!!!!

 

[kim]

Pic from the box showing the correct seat spacing withe seat backs in the rectangular and square windows.

 

[beavercreek]

Mmmmm I have been looking at the 'new' LGB output of Rio Grande streamliner rolling stock (and F7 'A' and 'B' units) and they look good.
I have the equivalent cars, made by USA Trains, and they are very highly detailed and made from aluminium.
A train of 6 USAT streamline cars is a whole heap of weight for my USAT F3 A-B-B set up to haul up my max 1:10 incline but they've made it for last 10 years.

The USAT ones are actual scale length but as they are 1:29 they come to about 33ins long.
The LGB ones are 30 ins long
Kim, could you tell me the width and weight of the LGB dome car as that would give me a clue as to the possibility of a change over to the LGB variety.

I also have the Aristocraft streamline stainless steel ribbed cars made from aluminium and they are of a 'shortened' dimension-wise (27 1/2 inches long but a little wider than the USA trains jobbies. If the USAT ones are 1:29 then the Aristo scale would be nearer 1:28 (width wise).....

Here is a couple of each sort.
These all were taken on the layout a long time ago and the layout has certainly changed a fair bit since then.....

First the USA trains variety




The Aristocraft variety

 

[kim]

No problem Mike, will be tomorrow morning mate.

 

[stevedenver]

OP, I checked my LGB Southern Pacific dome, it has a different chair config, one that is correct, reversed, no need for a passenger crawling over the backs. My seats are entirely plain brown, no contrasting painted headrest.

why do I think Marklin will be indifferent to your plight?

wow, Beavercreek, as usual an eye grabbing consist that looks so right. just beautiful against the green trees and red ballast. such a talented lad.

gosh, I hope, and only that , marklin releases a diner and baggage in Daylight. yet, such bright colors just don't seem to be in marklin's color palette.

 

[kim]

OP, I checked my LGB Southern Pacific dome, it has a different chair config, one that is correct, reversed, no need for a passenger crawling over the backs. My seats are entirely plain brown, no contrasting painted headrest.

why do I think Marklin will be indifferent to your plight?

If it's the full production run any indifference will come back and bite them!! The ball is rolling, let us see where it goes.

 

[kim]

Here you go Mike:

Five pounds, six and three eigths ounces
Seven and a quarter inches from rail top to top of dome
Four and five eigths inches from handrail to handrail in width
Thirty one inches in length from coupling hook to coupling hook

 

[kim]

Marklin have been in touch asking for details so 10 out of 10 for response time. Sent them the pics, see where it goes from here.

 

[stevedenver]

Indeed!

 

[beavercreek]

Cheers Kim

So, with that info I have done a streamline dome car comparison of all three manufacturers, using length measurement from connecting corridor to corridor ends. (I have excluded the extra length for the couplers)
My Aristocraft cars are the most recent version (before Aristo's demise) and have the lowered bogies, interior detail, led lighting etc. BUT they are still a higher riding bogie than the USAT version and it appears that the LGB version has a 'shallower' bogie and is also 'lower' slung.


The USAT one is more or less spot on scale wise (1:29) but is almost twice as heavy as the LGB version
The Aristo one is a quite a bit short but is between the LGB and USAT for height but is much lighter even though it is also all aluminium in construction.
The LGB one is a bit short but is near the other dimensions of the USAT one.... BUT is the lightest of the lot at only near 5.5lbs

The LGB one (using their own publicity shots) does not seem to have many door mouldings besides at one single end on the ordinary 'passenger car' and the 'observation' car. Perhaps you can confirm if this is or not the case Kim?

So whether to swap to the LGB variety from my USA Trains ones.... the LGB are lighter but not so detailed.... BUT a six car consist would be about 28 lbs lighter which on my maximum 1:10 (approx 10%) gradient, it would be a blessed relief for my F3 ABB lash up!...but the USAT loco units, that I use, are all twin motored whereas the LGB 'B' unit is not motorized ........ Mmmmm maybe a miniature dilema....

USAT and Aristocraft end to end:

 

[kim]

Cheers Kim

So, with that info I have done a streamline dome car comparison of all three manufacturers, using length measurement from connecting corridor to corridor ends. (I have excluded the extra length for the couplers)
My Aristocraft cars are the most recent version (before Aristo's demise) and have the lowered bogies, interior detail, led lighting etc. BUT they are still a higher riding bogie than the USAT version and it appears that the LGB version has a 'shallower' bogie and is also 'lower' slung.

View attachment 225071
The USAT one is more or less spot on scale wise (1:29) but is almost twice as heavy as the LGB version
The Aristo one is a quite a bit short but is between the LGB and USAT for height but is much lighter even though it is also all aluminium in construction.
The LGB one is a bit short but is near the other dimensions of the USAT one.... BUT is the lightest of the lot at only near 5.5lbs

The LGB one (using their own publicity shots) does not seem to have many door mouldings besides at one single end on the ordinary 'passenger car' and the 'observation' car. Perhaps you can confirm if this is or not the case Kim?

So whether to swap to the LGB variety from my USA Trains ones.... the LGB are lighter but not so detailed.... BUT a six car consist would be about 28 lbs lighter which on my maximum 1:10 (approx 10%) gradient, it would be a blessed relief for my F3 ABB lash up!...but the USAT loco units, that I use, are all twin motored whereas the LGB 'B' unit is not motorized ........ Mmmmm maybe a miniature dilema....

USAT and Aristocraft end to end:

View attachment 225072

View attachment 225073[/Q

Correct on the doors Mike

 

[kim]

The importers, The Hobby Company, have admitted that they have a few like mine but it is an easy fix, take the roof off and reverse the upper deck. Pointed out to them that does not fix anything, the seats will be facing the wrong end and two will still be inaccesable, the seats need to be turned and swapped with the one opposite then turn the deck. The only problem with this is that the seats are either glued or clipped into the wall support and will not move. Also found that the roof wasn't fitted properly and the fixing lugs are not in direct line with the end wall screw holes. Told them I will return the car for a correct replacement and also accept a standard coach as compensation for this plus highlighting what is obviously a factory fault and faulty units will have been sent worldwide!! Well, I can dream, can't I??!! Off to Top Slots and Trains this afters to start the return/replacement procedure.

 

[beavercreek]

Good luck Kim, it is always disappointing when a product does not match up to the expectation that it has garnered through publicity and has some manufacturing inconsistencies.

Although the LGB are undoubtedly very nice cars and they are a whole lot lighter than my USA Trains jobbies, I think due to the lack of door mouldings and other details etc, that I will keep the USAT ones for my 'Prospector' consist and drop in a USAT PB1 in place of the second F3 'B' unit behind the F3 'A' - 'B'.
I think that I once saw a photo of the 'Prospector' with this configuration (the PB1 was probably a 'steam generator' car) but although the PB1 is longer than a F3 'b' unit, it does have four motors and it will certainly ably 'assist' the F3 units to do the business in dragging 6 heavy aluminium USAT cars up my 1:10 incline!

I use a USAT PA1 for my 'Yampa Valley' consist which is an oddball mixture of rolling stock much like the prototypical train.

I might also use the combination of PB1 with the F3 A-B units , in place of all F3 units, as the power for my 'California Zephyr' with the Aristo 'stainless steel' aluminium streamline cars.
So I may sell one USAT F3 'A' and 'B' set...

PS
I converted one Aristo dome car into an observation/dome car 'Silver Sky' by customising the body sides, lengthening the wheelbase and adding on an 'observation' end from a broken Aristo 'Egg-Liner', but still have to fabricate the taller middle end rear light pod that was prototypical for the Rio grande units.
I must admit that the extra length does make the Aristo car 'look' better all round.

Yampa Valley ragbag consist with a single PA1 up front for power: it sometimes had an even shorter train and without the business car at the rear.

 

[kim]

Nice pic Mike. It is a pain to have to go through this process, could never fault the older lgb but this build quality.............!! This is a numbers game, as this info gets around, I'm sure it will, Marklin may have a problem with p....d off customers world wide.

 

[Brixham]

but the USAT loco units, that I use, are all twin motored whereas the LGB 'B' unit is not motorized

I would think it's possible to fit a power truck to one bogie of an LGB B unit....the other bogie has the speed sensor for the sound unit and maybe the reed switches for the sound magnets. So it would at least shift itself, and maybe with some extra weight to match the A units, help with your consist up your fierce grade.

Malcolm

 

[kim]

That's the car dropped off at Top Slots, showed Darren the roblem and he got it, he spoke to the guys at Hobby Company but I don't think they have got it, yet! Anyway, be interesting to see what I get back.

 

[Greg Elmassian]

Sad to hear that the LGB quality is going down, improper assembly would be unheard of in the "original" LGB.

I went with the USAT cars since they are scale length, the Aristo look toylike. Length wise the LGB look reasonable.

But the comment on the weight of the USAT is spot on, they are heavy!

I use 3 E8's to pull a 10 car train. (yes those locos are E units, not F units, 15 pounds each)

 

[stevedenver]

Ragbag! ragbag indeed.

I recall watching that fly by as a youngster near Granby.

That train had character.

 

[beavercreek]

I would think it's possible to fit a power truck to one bogie of an LGB B unit....the other bogie has the speed sensor for the sound unit and maybe the reed switches for the sound magnets. So it would at least shift itself, and maybe with some extra weight to match the A units, help with your consist up your fierce grade.

Malcolm

Besides the cost of the motor blocks (if they can be found) and the fact that they do not have traction tyred axles, which the USAT ones do, then a single motor in a 'B' unit would not really cut it for my purposes (which are pretty extreme I grant you), even with more weight added.
My USAT F3 A-B-B has worked so well with hauling either the rake of USAT or Aristocraft passenger cars up the 1:10 gradient, that a replacement would need to have both the traction and the grunt to work equally as well. In fact a twin loco F3 A-B lash-up can pull the 5 lighter Aristocraft cars but needs the third loco when I add a sixth car).

It looks like I will have to pass on the LGB Rio Grande streamliner cars and F7 locos, even if they are lighter and a slightly larger scale (USAT 1:29.... LGB 1:26??)

I went with the USAT cars since they are scale length, the Aristo look toylike. Length wise the LGB look reasonable.

But the comment on the weight of the USAT is spot on, they are heavy!

Greg, I agree that the Aristo are way too short but in other aspects they are not too bad at all. Once they have had little details added like ventilation grills and lower grills, they begin to get a 'presence'. The shortened length is always going to be an issue, and as I said in a previous post in the thread, my 'bashed' dome/observation car looks all the better for now being over 30" long (it has since had rivet strips added to the roof of the 'rear' section and a central light 'pod' is in the making)

 

[kim]

Just had a response from Marklin service dept, exploded diagrams on how to remove the roof and full car assembly. Unfortunately this doesn't tell you how to remove the seats! Never mind, told them I have returned the car and will accept a standard passenger car for compensation and reward for finding the problem. Breath not being held!