LGB 24140 O&K 0-4-0T loco

[PhilP]

Some of you with long memories, may remember I had a right-game with the little LGB Feldbahn diesel a while back? - Motor got hot on DC, and even hotter on DCC. Even with a new motor..

I now have the little O&K to work with, though this is a rod-coupled loco, not a belt-drive.

These LGB loco's have a small board, across the track/motor pins, for analogue running. I am going to 'bell' it out, and work out just what it does. - Two resistors and two capacitors.
I have recently been following some threads on tiny (009) loco's, and many of those use a resistor to limit the voltage (and hence speed) of their loco's.

I am wondering if the motors in these small Feldbahn models, are actually designed for a lower voltage than we tend to drive out tracks with?

If this is so, it could explain the heating effect I observed. - My theory being the the pulsed, higher-voltage could saturate the motor windings, perhaps?


More when I have done a little testing.

PhilP.

 

[Neil Robinson]

I assumed they were for interference suppression.
If the resistors were used for reducing the motor voltage I suspect they would get hot at the level of current required to overheat the motor.

 

[PhilP]

I assumed they were for interference suppression.
If the resistors were used for reducing the motor voltage I suspect they would get hot at the level of current required to overheat the motor.

In the little diesel, everything got hot!
But yes, it appears to be a low-value resistor in each leg, with a capacitor, and ?varistor/thermistor? across the supply.

Although this loco was to have a trail-car (for batteries, radio, and sound) I am tempted to see if the Owner would consider foregoing the sound, and having all in the loco? - It actually runs quite nicely from a 2S Lipo pack.
I think I could get a reasonable capacity battery in the boiler-space. Getting enough weight, in the rest of the loco might be a problem, but reduced traction would mean less load on the overall drive-train. - I would consider that a bonus, on these model's.

 

[Gavin Sowry]

I honestly don't know what this does, but, when my 24140 (original version) clapped out, I did diagnosis by disassembly, and finally found that this board was 'shorting' out. So, I took it off, reassembled loco, and it worked, and has done ever since. Yes, it gets a bit warm, but it goes. It's comming up 19 years since I got it. Did a motor replacement some years ago.... apparently the commutator was clogged up, and brushes worn. The thought of motor disassembly set me on course for a replacement.

 

[PhilP]

Thanks Gavin..

 

[Fred2179G]

though this is a rod-coupled loco, not a belt-drive

Over on Largescalecentral.com (I think) there was a short thread from Martin (I think - can't find the darn thing now) about adding electronics to this loco. In one photo he showed the motor and drive and his had a pair of bevels and a drive shaft to the front axle - although the LGB parts drawing does show a belt drive. Martin put a single 18650 LiIon cell in the boiler and added an amplifier to boost it to 12V. He also put a microprocessor somewhere so he could use remote control. Nifty stuff.

I've recently converted one of these to battery in a trailing car and I didn't look to see whether I have a belt or a shaft. I used 14.4V of LiIon 18650s and the loco runs fine on them without the circuitry in the front of the chassis. (I installed a track/battery switch which isolates the pickups and the motor choke (?) on the pc board.)
Large Scale Central - Advanced Forum Detail Topic - LGB 20140 Sound and battery install

 

[PhilP]

Thanks for the info, and link.


PhilP.

 

[FatherMcD]

I saw the same article about the single 18650 powering an LGB Feldbahn loco and also lost track of it. However, you inspired me to look again, so here is the link: Battery, ESP8266 based Remote Control and Automation for an LGB 24140 KJF Loco - G Scale Central
This is a very clever install to pack so much into the available space. I'm afraid these electronics may be beyond me.

I also have one of these tiny locos and am attempting to put battery R/C into it. If I manage to actually proceed I'll post about here. I've debated the onboard vs. trailing car methods and am inclined toward onboard but may be forced to trailing car. At an additional $300 plus per engine for onboard, the costs mount up!

 

[PhilP]

At an additional $300 plus per engine for onboard, the costs mount up!

Ouch!
What are you fitting, that costs $300? - Or, are you including sound in that??

PhilP.

 

[FatherMcD]

Yes, I'm including sound. RailBoss 4 Plus with MyLocoSound. And that doesn't include batteries! I really like the features of the RailBoss, but not sure I can afford it for all my locos. I received a set for Christmas that I had planned to put in my LGB Forney but it looks like it'll end up in my Bachmann Lyn. Perhaps RailBoss for 2-3 locos so I can use the automatic running features when I just want to watch trains run. For the 24140 I'm actually working to install a Monocacy Trains Bluetooth unit ($40) using a small Bluetooth speaker for sound ($10). These were actually for HO engines but I have a couple in other G Scale engines that work well. Unfortunately, they have gone out of business. For the batteries I think that I've settled on two Radio Shack AA battery boxes fitted as side tanks with 4 Tenergy 14500 size Li-ions. I've actually run a Monocacy setup with 9v size self-contained Li-Po batteries, but it required 2 in series and there is only room for one in the 24140. Charging required a micro USB connection complicating the potential installation.

 

[Fred2179G]

and also lost track of it.

Thanks! Now I understand why I couldn't find it!

Re: $300. My trailing car cost $25 for the car, $70 for the sound, $65 for the ESC (speed control), $2 for the speaker, $6 for the DSM2 receiver, and $10 for the various bits. Maybe $200 extra on top of $170 for the loco.
Edit: and $7.65 for the 18650 batteries, $1 for the protection board and $1 for the battery holder.

 

[PhilP]

Must admit, I am not a fan of rechargeable batteries in holders. - As opposed to made-up packs.

But then I have access to a tame battery-pack supplier, locally.

A made up pack is considerably smaller than using a holder. With the current Lithium batteries can supply, I do not like the risk of bad connections.

 

[dunnyrail]

Must admit, I am not a fan of rechargeable batteries in holders. - As opposed to made-up packs.

But then I have access to a tame battery-pack supplier, locally.

A made up pack is considerably smaller than using a holder. With the current Lithium batteries can supply, I do not like the risk of bad connections.

Must agree with Phil, my first iteration of batteries in my LGB 2076 0-4-0 Tank was indeed in a holder. Gave endless issues with having the need to lift the top off, reseat that batteries and stuff it all back in again. Now has a battery-pack and no more problems.

 

[KeithT]

I am just a little late coming to this…!
But, on the subject of overheating of these tiny locos, after cooking one by running it non-stop for 4hrs I was informed that LGB advise that they ought not to be run continuously for more than 20mins!!
The early motors are v difficult to find and are a different shape to the current ones.

 

[dutchelm]

I am just a little late coming to this…!
But, on the subject of overheating of these tiny locos, after cooking one by running it non-stop for 4hrs I was informed that LGB advise that they ought not to be run continuously for more than 20mins!!
The early motors are v difficult to find and are a different shape to the current ones.

Bin there, done that. I ran one too long at a show & melted the chassis. Now I run 2 or 3 alternately without problems.