LGB 22852 Black Mallett Battery Conversion

dunnyrail

dunnyrail

DOGS, Garden Railways, Steam Trains, Jive Dancing,
25 Oct 2009
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On the workbench today ready for what I thought would be an easy job, well there has got to be loads of space inside to fit all the gear shown with the beast.
6EB754F7-8C5B-4FB6-827F-9EDD48676887.jpeg

How wrong can you be?

Hells teeth, where am I going to fit the batteries in this? Clearly when I fitted the LGB chips I had enough of a problem finding suitable safe isolated space for them. The cab was the most suitable location for the 2 x 55021’s.
E62819D7-609F-4F43-857D-278947E461D2.jpeg

Looks like I will need to strip out all of the old LGB Electronics and fit a different Chip. This will make a lot of sense as none of the sound functions like Whistle etc can be called on this DCC Conversion. But I am wondering what chip to get, Massoth, Zimo, ESU or another make? Any suggestions.
 
The Shed

The Shed

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Jon, not wishing to be pedantic, but aren't they old style Massoth XL's already fitted?

As for space, if you are not going to use the sound elements, would it make sense to just remove all the LGB gubbins, to make space?
 
Ralphmp

Ralphmp

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6 Jan 2010
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On the workbench today ready for what I thought would be an easy job, well there has got to be loads of space inside to fit all the gear shown with the beast.
View attachment 264113
How wrong can you be?

Hells teeth, where am I going to fit the batteries in this? Clearly when I fitted the LGB chips I had enough of a problem finding suitable safe isolated space for them. The cab was the most suitable location for the 2 x 55021’s.
View attachment 264114
Looks like I will need to strip out all of the old LGB Electronics and fit a different Chip. This will make a lot of sense as none of the sound functions like Whistle etc can be called on this DCC Conversion. But I am wondering what chip to get, Massoth, Zimo, ESU or another make? Any suggestions.
Jon

When I did a complete LGB gubbins removal on one of my Mallets I went for Massoth XLS - mainly as I run all Massoth/LGB DCC and also the Massoth sound file retains those sound functions I didn't want to lose from the original LGB board.

Watching your progress on this with great interest btw - Im teetering on whether to have a go at a battery conversion myself!

Hope it goes well.
Best wishes
 
dunnyrail

dunnyrail

DOGS, Garden Railways, Steam Trains, Jive Dancing,
25 Oct 2009
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1,542
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St.Neots Cambridgeshire UK
Jon, not wishing to be pedantic, but aren't they old style Massoth XL's already fitted?

As for space, if you are not going to use the sound elements, would it make sense to just remove all the LGB gubbins, to make space?
You know he is right, memory not what it was I just wonder what prompted me to get those? They are still of no use so I need a proper Sound Decoder.

That is what I said. All the LGB carp plus the XL decoders will be stripped to make space for a new start. One thing that bothers me is how to get the requisite number of chuffs I.E. 8 per wheel revolution to reflect the 4 cylinders of the Mallet. I do not necessarily want to fit Sensors though this may be necessary and a first for me.

Jon

When I did a complete LGB gubbins removal on one of my Mallets I went for Massoth XLS - mainly as I run all Massoth/LGB DCC and also the Massoth sound file retains those sound functions I didn't want to lose from the original LGB board.

Watching your progress on this with great interest btw - Im teetering on whether to have a go at a battery conversion myself!

Hope it goes well.
Best wishes
Have a look at my thread for my other 2 Battery DCC Projects both TrainLine Locomotives but broadly similar in scope to the Mallet. You have clearly made a good start on your Mallet which I guess was a non-sound one. Sort of wish I had a non sound one to convert but I have had quite a few happy years enjoying the sound with this one on Track Power. My other Mallet was a Brown one also with LGB built in sound but that was sold on a year or two ago via this Forum.
 
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Greg Elmassian

Greg Elmassian

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If it really is a Mallet, then you only hear the exhaust from the low pressure cylinders, a normal 4 chuffs per revolution of the driver. Only simple articulateds have 8, and they are by definition not Mallets.

Greg
 
dunnyrail

dunnyrail

DOGS, Garden Railways, Steam Trains, Jive Dancing,
25 Oct 2009
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St.Neots Cambridgeshire UK
So to complete the conversion of this Mallett, oh and there are simple non compound Malletts (according to some experts but who am I to say who is right) in the world as well. Live and learn eh! Sill as this is a Compound (yes I measured the cylinders to check) a point has been scored somewhere.

Thus another Battery DCC Conversion up and running. This Black LGB Mallet (22852) has been in bits for a while as seen earlier in this thread and awaiting a decision on a chip. This arrived Saturday and is a Locsound 5XL, thus I got it installed yesterday after a few days of pondering and am pretty happy with the result. Inevitably with a conversion like this there were decisions to be made and a week or two back I decided to bite that bullet and pull out all the old LGB sound guts to replace it with this new decoder. This was a great decision as now there is plenty of space for a big chunky long battery that I had in stock. I got this for a Railcar job but it proved to be 2 cells too long so got used as just a test set. I also made a bit of a blooper with some AAA cells for one of my Steam Tram Battrey conversions so one that set is now acting as the Test Set.

So the first pic shows the Chip installed with my oatented wire trunking. This was a bit of till roll cut and modified. Hells teeth why did I not use some small proper cable trunking Doh! Still this abomination does the job and helps keep tye wiring a little tidier. The chip is held in place with a couple of screws, one in an original place that the LgB board was held in place with. The other a new hole drilled into the weight. I also made a couple of washers with 2 x bits of 30 though plasticard glued together and drilled 4mm so that the bottom of the chip is not touching the metal weight.
D711CF65-16CF-4780-AAE0-B6EBC590353F.jpeg

Below can be seen the big lumpy battery that fits into the smokebox and will lay nicely in the top of the Boiler. I have also fitted the switching to another piece of Black Plasticard that will bolt into the Smokebox in place of the unseen bit of LGB detailing that normally lives here. The Chock Block couples the Track Power Wires (Brown and White) for each Bogie Section that then go to the DPDTCO Switch that allows the loco to run on Track or Battery Power. this is the higher of the two switches on the bit of Plasticard, the other is the Fosworks Wiring Loom On/Off and then the Charging Socket. The bit of Red Heat Shrink in the Firebox hides a small connector that allows the rear bogie to be removed if necessary. At this stage lighting wire has also been added to the chip.
251A8100-9358-4FD9-A169-1116DB94D345.jpeg

A close view if the Choc Block and the all important Fosworks DCC receiver and other vital bit to get a link to the XL Chip via Battery Power.
D1B09025-FC9F-424C-B3E6-7021AEF140F8.jpeg

These 2 plus are unused at the moment. The one with the centre Brown Wire is connected to the Reeds below and I would live these to be connected to the Chip but not sure that I understand how or where to connect them. The all 3 black wires is the Piston Sync setup again unused and nit entirely sure how they can be as I am not sure why 3 wires are necessary as I do not think they connect to a Hall Sensor just some roundy thing in the bowels of the rear chassis.
7640FE80-E1EB-4AD4-90CC-F306C2C3CBE8.jpeg

Below the Battery is nicely tucked into the Boiler held in place with Gaffa Tape. The Fosworks DCC bits are a little bit mobile as I am not too sure that they will be happy nect to the Speaker. I think another top off and stick to the tank sides with tape may be necessary.
A5168D55-369A-475F-AD60-455AC6D5ADA7.jpeg

Closer view of the mess to keep the switches together, I do realise that I could probably have used the LGB Switch for all of this, but I spent 10 or so minutes with it trying to work out what the heck it does with a Meter and decided that a DPDTCO and the Fosworks Loom was easier as I understand how these function.
2311023D-F9DA-4EA5-A349-540E0AF90891.jpeg

Here is the front showing the various switches all screwed in place and labelled, yes I got the TOB (Track off Battery) printed upside down Or the wrong way round if you prefer. I can live with that. I love these puffers with opening Smokebox doors for Battery Conversions, should be made the law! Oh and yes the Smoke Generator has been removed.

ABE1B435-EA8B-4A2B-B706-46A4CA0B3178.jpeg

So now all that remains to do is to decide what to do with the original LGB Sound Board?
 
ebay mike

ebay mike

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6 Dec 2011
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So to complete the conversion of this Mallett, oh and there are simple non compound Malletts (according to some experts but who am I to say who is right) in the world as well. Live and learn eh! Sill as this is a Compound (yes I measured the cylinders to check) a point has been scored somewhere.

Thus another Battery DCC Conversion up and running. This Black LGB Mallet (22852) has been in bits for a while as seen earlier in this thread and awaiting a decision on a chip. This arrived Saturday and is a Locsound 5XL, thus I got it installed yesterday after a few days of pondering and am pretty happy with the result. Inevitably with a conversion like this there were decisions to be made and a week or two back I decided to bite that bullet and pull out all the old LGB sound guts to replace it with this new decoder. This was a great decision as now there is plenty of space for a big chunky long battery that I had in stock. I got this for a Railcar job but it proved to be 2 cells too long so got used as just a test set. I also made a bit of a blooper with some AAA cells for one of my Steam Tram Battrey conversions so one that set is now acting as the Test Set.

So the first pic shows the Chip installed with my oatented wire trunking. This was a bit of till roll cut and modified. Hells teeth why did I not use some small proper cable trunking Doh! Still this abomination does the job and helps keep tye wiring a little tidier. The chip is held in place with a couple of screws, one in an original place that the LgB board was held in place with. The other a new hole drilled into the weight. I also made a couple of washers with 2 x bits of 30 though plasticard glued together and drilled 4mm so that the bottom of the chip is not touching the metal weight.
View attachment 266783
Below can be seen the big lumpy battery that fits into the smokebox and will lay nicely in the top of the Boiler. I have also fitted the switching to another piece of Black Plasticard that will bolt into the Smokebox in place of the unseen bit of LGB detailing that normally lives here. The Chock Block couples the Track Power Wires (Brown and White) for each Bogie Section that then go to the DPDTCO Switch that allows the loco to run on Track or Battery Power. this is the higher of the two switches on the bit of Plasticard, the other is the Fosworks Wiring Loom On/Off and then the Charging Socket. The bit of Red Heat Shrink in the Firebox hides a small connector that allows the rear bogie to be removed if necessary. At this stage lighting wire has also been added to the chip.
View attachment 266784
A close view if the Choc Block and the all important Fosworks DCC receiver and other vital bit to get a link to the XL Chip via Battery Power.
View attachment 266785
These 2 plus are unused at the moment. The one with the centre Brown Wire is connected to the Reeds below and I would live these to be connected to the Chip but not sure that I understand how or where to connect them. The all 3 black wires is the Piston Sync setup again unused and nit entirely sure how they can be as I am not sure why 3 wires are necessary as I do not think they connect to a Hall Sensor just some roundy thing in the bowels of the rear chassis.
View attachment 266786
Below the Battery is nicely tucked into the Boiler held in place with Gaffa Tape. The Fosworks DCC bits are a little bit mobile as I am not too sure that they will be happy nect to the Speaker. I think another top off and stick to the tank sides with tape may be necessary.
View attachment 266787
Closer view of the mess to keep the switches together, I do realise that I could probably have used the LGB Switch for all of this, but I spent 10 or so minutes with it trying to work out what the heck it does with a Meter and decided that a DPDTCO and the Fosworks Loom was easier as I understand how these function.
View attachment 266789
Here is the front showing the various switches all screwed in place and labelled, yes I got the TOB (Track off Battery) printed upside down Or the wrong way round if you prefer. I can live with that. I love these puffers with opening Smokebox doors for Battery Conversions, should be made the law! Oh and yes the Smoke Generator has been removed.

View attachment 266788
So now all that remains to do is to decide what to do with the original LGB Sound Board?
Jon, I might have a Mallet in need of some innards.
 
The Shed

The Shed

Registered
The following may or may not be of use.

Reed contacts, magnet and a multimeter set to continuity test, with these should be able to determine which wire is the common (GND, Masse) and which of the others are the other connections to either (Eingang to Sensoreingang 1 or 2) for left or right reed contacts from the three wire cable.

Hall Sensor, power up the original board, and with a multimeter set for voltage, and working between the three output pins on the board, measure the voltage, process of elimination will determine which are POS+ and GND(Masse), the remaining one will be for the Input from the Hall Sensor, (Eingang to Radsensor on the XL5) make a note of the voltage, for correct voltage source connection from the Loksound 5XL.

ESU 5XL.PNG
 
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dunnyrail

dunnyrail

DOGS, Garden Railways, Steam Trains, Jive Dancing,
25 Oct 2009
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St.Neots Cambridgeshire UK
Greg Elmassian

Greg Elmassian

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looking like good progress.

Mallet: you might look up the Wikipedia article:

Anatole Mallet invented the idea, and his contribution was the compounding of the use of steam, high pressure to the first set of cylinders, and then instead of exhausting that steam, it is fed to a second set of cylinders.

Since some of the steam's expansive energy is used up in the first cylinders, the second set need to necessarily be larger to match the output power.

So there are no "simple" mallets in terms of being only simple, i.e. high pressure to both cylinders all the time.

That said, some mallets have a valve to feed high pressure to both sets of cylinders to help starting.

Whatever your experts say, the term Mallet comes from the invention by Anatole Mallet.

Greg
 
M

Michael

Registered
26 Jan 2010
108
51
Jon, nice to see your battery conversions. What makes you decide whether to do a normal RC conversion or a DCC based one?
 
dunnyrail

dunnyrail

DOGS, Garden Railways, Steam Trains, Jive Dancing,
25 Oct 2009
16,905
1,542
72
St.Neots Cambridgeshire UK
Jon, nice to see your battery conversions. What makes you decide whether to do a normal RC conversion or a DCC based one?
As a rule I generally go for a normal one with a My Loco Sound Card where there is no sound. The DCC ones are where there is a good Sound plus has been chipped or has come with DCC Sound or I have put a DCC Sound Chip in.

With the Mallett though the Sound was good and I had chipped it, but the boards were just too large to fit in Battery and the other boards plus with it having been an analogue Sound Loco it was not possible to call things like Whistle or Bell via DCC only by a Track Magner. Not what I was after.