Lgb 21832 Wp&y Mikado - Dcc & Lights Issue

Frolin Marek

Frolin Marek

Registered
Helping someone with a new (from the box) LGB WP&Y Mikado and some programming issues. It appears the DCC decoder is not responding to standard DCC programming or commands. At present, unable to get the motor side to respond and 'run the engine' motor, plus unable to get the head light or back up light to come on.

We tried the 'factory reset' option with CV 57, without success. The sound side is latched on to address 73, the engine number, and we can blow the whistle and rings the bell via DCC. But no motor response or head light options.

When run on standard DC, the loco motor runs fine back and forth and the headlight and back up light respond as normal.

The other concern is the fact, the Function numbers are consistent with common function use (i.e.: normally Function 1 is the bell and Function 2 is the whistle, plus F2 is momentary not a 'tripped preselected whistle sequence).

We have been doing conventional NMRA DCC for years, using CVP's EasyDCC system. Even tried to access and program with a Sprog DCC programmer. It just don't seem to like common DCC programming.


Is it possible to program and run this loco and it's factory decoder, with conventional DCC systems ?

And if so, is it possible to change which Function key does which function ?

If yes to these, is there a more robust (complete) list of CVs available online ?

OR... is the idea to yank the factory decoder and replace with a modern DCC motor decoder and DCC sound decoder the only/best choice, which appears to be the plans unless we get some 'yes' answers to above.


In advance, thank you for any help and directions.
Frolin Marek
San Antonio, Texas
 
This is an older limited addition LGB/Aster, I believe?

Was sound a factory option? - If not, there may be two decoders.
What 'flavour' of Throttle and Central Station are you using?
What make/model of decoder(s) are in the loco?

If there are two decoders, it may be that they are now on different addresses.. you would need to isolate each decoder to program it, as CV functions (and values) may not be common across the two.
If this is a two decoder system. The original driving decoder may not accept an address as 'high' as 73??
 
Good questions from PhilP. It would be helpful to know what decoder(s) are fitted. It may well actually have 2 decoders that need to be isolated to program each independently. The SPROG should be certainly be capable of reading and identifying the decoders. Did the SPROG totally fail to talk to the decoder?

What speed step setting are you using with your throttle? I believe factory-fitted LGB locos always used to come set for 14 speed steps, but the most recent Marklin-made models may now be set to 28 steps.

I have an LGB Mikado from early 2000s with factory fitted decoder, it's not happy with long DCC addresses and also doesn't like 128 speed steps (though it works on 14 & 28 steps). If I remember correctly it has to be programmed in paged mode with the SPROG not direct-bit.
 
Phil, to your questions, the LGB WP&Y Mikado is factory with DCC sound. Quite familiar with common DCC installs, our normal is two decoders, one for motor and one for sound when converting myself but this is the stock factory setup (though plan at present is to remove the factory stuff due to the common limits and issues).

Nick, you hit the nail on the head about the factory decoders not liking many common (today) DCC settings. I had issues with the WP&Y green/yellow diesel with factory sound, same issues the motor and lights did not respond to DCC and sound functions would. And would run fine of DC, so we know it was the motor decoder not responding.

Have read about these issues with LGB DCC decoders, engine number range limits and other. But have not seen a solution, maybe not one if wanting to run them on standard DCC instead of the LGB MTS system.

So anyone familiar with the LGB WP&Y Mikado itself, and it's LGB DCC setups, to know why we might be having issues doing a factory reset and getting it to take, or if can change the Function selections (which does what), and why it seems the motor and lights do not work under DCC, when the sound functions respond to DCC.


Frolin
 
The solution to the address limitations is usually to make sure you're using DCC short addresses not long addresses (CV29 bit 5 must be off, and throttle / command station set accordingly), and to keep the short address to a low number. If you've read about LGB's early MTS only allowing up to address 19, I believe that's a limitation of the throttle not the decoder. Even old LGB decoders should at least allow up to 99 from what I've read.

I can't figure out yet why it responds to sound functions but not motion if it's only a single factory decoder. That would imply the decoder understands the address 73. Did you try making sure you're using 14 speed steps or 28 speed steps on the throttle (not 128 steps)?

Another thing to consider is that early LGB decoders don't always understand the different function numbers as separate commands, instead they understand functions as a series of pulses of the F1 function (eg. to get F5 the MTS system sent F1 five times). Internet searches regarding this usually refer to "serial" versus "parallel" functions. In later decoders I'm pretty sure this serial/parallel response behaviour is selectable by CV, but I think defaulted to serial mode to be MTS compatible? I'd need to check the decoder manuals to confirm.

I use the NCE PowerPro DCC system not MTS. I'd certainly consider NCE to be a "standard DCC" system. My system doesn't support 14 speed steps anyway, so all my locos with LGB decoders have to be set to 28/128 steps (CV29 bit 1 is set). According to my notes it's only my old Mikado which fails to respond to 128 steps and I have to remember to switch the throttle to 28 steps. I don't use the sound that much, I honestly can't remember whether I use specific Fx buttons for each sound or whether I have to simulate the old serial pulses by pressing F1 repeatedly.
 
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If you have done a reset.. Is the motor decoder now on address 3?
I normally find it is the motor function decoder which needs serial pulse strings, and the (newer) sound decoder responds to parallel commands.

This could be the problem I presently have with a T2/2 tractor.. It works fine with my Digitrax controller.. Sounds, motor, lights.. On Massoth, no sound control! And lights behave weirdly!!
 
I usually start with basics. Since you are familiar with standard NMRA conventions, I won't list the CV's, but I have the following questions:

1. can you read the mfg id?
2. can you read cv29
3. can you set the short address and it "sticks", i.e. you can read it back and the loco responds to the short address

Basically, check out the capability on the programming track, and try to read back the version number. If you can program it, then I'd research what capabilities the decoder has, it might be only 14 speed steps and you are indeed sending 28, or it could be one of those that cannot use the full range of short addresses.

If you cannot communicate with the programming track, look for lights that are directly across the track pickups, perhaps you can turn them off. In the possibility there are 2 decoders fitted, you might have to physically disconnect one of them to work on the programming track.

Greg
 
I know this might be a bit easy one to think of but have you checked the loco is actually turned on by the switch on the loco?
Usually located in the cab. :tongueclosed:
 
Phil said:
I know this might be a bit easy one to think of but have you checked the loco is actually turned on by the switch on the loco?
Usually located in the cab. :tongueclosed:
Click to expand...
Frolin did say it ran on analogue DC so I discounted the cab switch.
 
Thank you for the replies. Without much success with various efforts and suggestions here, and the fact the old style LGB decoder has some limits, including the 14/28 steps only, a new Digitrax 583S has been installed, to control motor and lights. The 583S is the standard we use in most our equipment, it just works and works well.

The engine is running fine and the lights now work.

The remaining test runs and decision next will be, to retain the old style sound decoder with the wrong functions setup and pre-selected sounds, like the inability to control blow the whistle, and it will probably be replaced next with a Phoenix.

It's a great engine, but the old style and European MTS oriented DCC system limits, do not work as smooth on current DCC systems, so... electronics swap out is fixing the issues.

thanks again!
Frolin
 
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