Lenz LE230 V1

S

Sarah Winfield

Registered
Country flag
My Stainz locomotive is fitted with the above decoder. Although I would like to convert to R/C battery at present the funds are lacking.
I bought the locomotive not really knowing what I was buying. However it seems to work fine so I may stay with rail power.
In addition I also obtained a NCE D13SR Decoder. I think I bought it as a replacement to the Lenz but never fitted it.
Would a member please advise whether the NCE Decoder is in fact an equivalent to the LE230 V1 please?
There is a considerable difference in size although that may have something to do with progress.
Thank you,
Sarah Winfield
 
Sarah Winfield said:
My Stainz locomotive is fitted with the above decoder. Although I would like to convert to R/C battery at present the funds are lacking.
I bought the locomotive not really knowing what I was buying. However it seems to work fine so I may stay with rail power.
In addition I also obtained a NCE D13SR Decoder. I think I bought it as a replacement to the Lenz but never fitted it.
Would a member please advise whether the NCE Decoder is in fact an equivalent to the LE230 V1 please?
There is a considerable difference in size although that may have something to do with progress.
Thank you,
Sarah Winfield
Click to expand...

My suspicion is that the Lenz has a higher current rating than the NCE and is therefore preferable for G scale. I also suspect that both have been superseded by later examples.
 
Hello Sarah,
The NCE decoder has the following characteristics:

1.3 Amp (2 Amp peak) rating and four function outputs. Size: 1.35" x 0.63" x 0.110" (very thin). All lighting outputs including headlights are full track power. If you use LEDs we recommend a 1K ohm 1/4 Watt series resistor for each output.

So you need to be aware of the lighting outputs being full track voltage, as you Stainz will very likely have 5V bulbs..

This is a shortcut to the manual:

https://ncedcc.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/article_attachments/200586265/D13SRJv35.pdf

All the documentation seems to suggest the maximum voltage should be 16V. - Though I am not able to find a specification to this effect. All the tables for limiting resistors only go up to a 16V supply.
This cold be a problem? - What is the track voltage of your DCC system?

<edit>
This decoder has been retired.
 
I have noticed when I run my DCC Stainz the lights aren't steady. They tend to come on and off depending on the rotation of the control knob.
Is there a likely cause of this please?
Thanks,
Sarah Winfield
 
All to do with speed steps Sarah. You probably find they are on with even numbered steps - it's a well known situation.
I expect your loco is set to 28 steps and your controller to 14 (or vise versa). One or other can be changed. I think it is CV29 for the decoder. Have a look in the instruction leaflet (all available online if you have not got them).
It wont cause any harm anyway.
 
Might that account for the rather sudden stopping and starting, please? The locomotive goes along fine and slows down nicely but in the end i comes to a sudden halt.
Starting isn't smooth either.
Thanks for your continued help.
Sarah Winfield
 
That is probably the starting voltage set in the decoder - another CV, it sets the voltage that the motor should move at. I guess yours is set too low. I don't have experience with Lenz decoders so I am not sure what CV it might be.
 
Of course you know you might just as well be speaking Chinese!
Is it something that can be changed and from the controller, please?
I certainly wouldn't trust myself to try and change anything inside the locomotive.

Sarah Winfield
 
I cant tell you exactly what to do Sarah but I'll try to explain what I think the problem is. As I said, I have no experience with Lenz.
Each speed step is allocated a voltage in the decoder. Step one is a low voltage that may just start your loco moving - sometimes you need to use step two just to get movement. As steps increase so does the voltage supply to the motor and thus, speed.
I am guessing that the voltage set in your decoder for step one is too high - so the loco moves off sharpish and stops the same. Having said that, maybe it is an unfortunate characteristic of this Lenz decoder - I don't know.
Now - maybe someone with Lenz equipment and experience can come along and help us.
 
Sarah, it will be interesting to see how your new locos (the two Stainzes from Glendale and the black 0-6-0 diesel) behave on the Bachmann controller.... the diesel will have a standard LGB decoder in it, and the Stainzes have most likely got LGB or Massoth decoders (which are both pretty much the same thing anyway).
I've had a look at the instruction manual (pdf) for the EZ Command controller, which I think is what you're using at the moment? It does not appear to have much capability when it comes to programming, with the exception of being able to change the loco address and the direction of running. This is probably why any mention of CVs, decoder programming etc is "all geek to you"..... and also why I suggested that you get Brian at Glendale to change the loco addresses on the Stainzes for you before you take them away - that MAY be something you can do with your unit, but it's easier to have someone else do it for you!

I don't think that you will be able to alter anything like the speed step settings, to get round the on-off lights problem - this is why, before long, you may want to just bite the bullet and buy a better DCC control setup which is more capable for the sort of thing you are doing with it; the EZ Command has been a good starting point as you already had it, and it has been enough to show you the very basics of what DCC can do, but it's not really sophisticated enough for long term use - plus it won't have enough amp output to run more than one loco at a time (you might JUST manage to run two at a time for a short while, as an LGB Buhler motor in good order should pull a little less than half an amp if it's not being too heavily loaded - but even if it worked, you'd be very close to the 1 amp maximum output of the controller).

Jon.
 
Am I correct in understanding that controllers addresses are the same for all DCC units? I.e. if, as my locomotive is, set to address 2 on my E-Z that it will be address 2 on a new DCC controller?

I understand the output of a controller, measured in amps, and that it shouldn't be exceeded by running locomotives taking more amperage than its maximum output.

It looks like I'll have an investment to make shortly.

Sarah Winfield
 
The decoder address is stored in the decoder itself, so on any DCC system you use you will need to select the correct address as per what was set in the decoder. That's why folk typically use the last few digits of the loco's cabside number and set this as the decoder address, or they put a sticker underneath with the address.

there is a slight complication in that DCC decoders can have a "short" and a "long" address, and it is possible to overlap. Short address 2 is not the same as long address 2. If you've only got a handful of locos then stick to short addresses.

Regarding your original post about the headlights flashing as you turn the controller: that is an indication that your command station is set to 28 speed step operation but the decoder is set to 14 speed steps. The decoder is interpreting the extra part of the speed step command as instructions to turn the lights off or on. 14 speed steps setting is from the early days of DCC systems and is now pretty much obsolete, but resetting a decoder may well default back to 14 steps. If your decoder can be set to 28 or 128 speed steps then use that. All but the really old decoders can understand 28 and 128 speed steps. For example I have an LGB steamer from around 2002 which has factory-fitted DCC capable of understanding 14 and 28 steps but not 128.

[edit]
Ah... reading back through the thread, you have a Bachmann EZ Command system? As has been mentioned that's pretty limited in programming capabilities, it can't do much more than set a decoder short address. I suspect it probably also forces 28 speed steps to be set in the decoder as the instructions mention "28 speed steps for smooth operation". So you could try following the instructions to program the address of the loco using the EZ Command.
 
Last edited:
Sarah Winfield said:
Am I correct in understanding that controllers addresses are the same for all DCC units? I.e. if, as my locomotive is, set to address 2 on my E-Z that it will be address 2 on a new DCC controller?

I understand the output of a controller, measured in amps, and that it shouldn't be exceeded by running locomotives taking more amperage than its maximum output.

It looks like I'll have an investment to make shortly.

Sarah Winfield
Click to expand...


Yes, to both questions - a loco programmed to a certain address will respond to that same address on any DCC control system, and the rated amp output for the system is the total amount it can supply. As a VERY rough rule of thumb, you can reckon on LGB motors (in good order) needing about half an amp each on average (less if running light engine, more with heavy trains, gradients etc) - so a single motor loco needs half an amp, a twin-motor loco needs an amp.
Your EZ Command has a one-amp limit; an LGB MTS setup is good for 5 amps, a heavy-duty system like a Massoth 1200Z will do up to 12 amps.

Jon.
 
And my Zimo does 20 amps!

Seriously, the EZ command requires you reprogram locos with addresses over 10 (short address) apparently. Basically you match a button 1-9 to a loco in sort of a pairing mode... you don't really enter the actual address of the loco.

So the technically correct answer to "I.e. if, as my locomotive is, set to address 2 on my E-Z that it will be address 2 on a new DCC controller?" is NO.

The EZ command changes a lot of things to make things easier, and it basically ignores whatever address you have in the loco, but gives you a procedure to "pair" the loco with a button of your choice.

Also, running a 1 amp system is going to be marginal with one loco, forget two. You might be able to run 2 locos at a time if they don't have cars, are in good shape, no grades, etc. While possible, not a good recommendation.

The last thing I would comment on is the voltage will be low. So do not expect full speed from your trains. For most people this is fine.

Greg
 
Not too sure whether I fully understand everything that has been written recently.

I need time to digest the comments and to ask further questions. I think what I have is very limited in its capability however it has given me an idea of what DCC can offer.

At the moment all I have is an oval of track with my controller connected and the ability to run a locomotive forwards and backwards but I'm determined to enhance this.

Thank you for all your supporting replies.

Sarah Winfield
 
ntpntpntp said:
The decoder address is stored in the decoder itself, so on any DCC system you use you will need to select the correct address as per what was set in the decoder. That's why folk typically use the last few digits of the loco's cabside number and set this as the decoder address, or they put a sticker underneath with the address.

there is a slight complication in that DCC decoders can have a "short" and a "long" address, and it is possible to overlap. Short address 2 is not the same as long address 2. If you've only got a handful of locos then stick to short addresses.

Regarding your original post about the headlights flashing as you turn the controller: that is an indication that your command station is set to 28 speed step operation but the decoder is set to 14 speed steps. The decoder is interpreting the extra part of the speed step command as instructions to turn the lights off or on. 14 speed steps setting is from the early days of DCC systems and is now pretty much obsolete, but resetting a decoder may well default back to 14 steps. If your decoder can be set to 28 or 128 speed steps then use that. All but the really old decoders can understand 28 and 128 speed steps. For example I have an LGB steamer from around 2002 which has factory-fitted DCC capable of understanding 14 and 28 steps but not 128.

[edit]
Ah... reading back through the thread, you have a Bachmann EZ Command system? As has been mentioned that's pretty limited in programming capabilities, it can't do much more than set a decoder short address. I suspect it probably also forces 28 speed steps to be set in the decoder as the instructions mention "28 speed steps for smooth operation". So you could try following the instructions to program the address of the loco using the EZ Command.
Click to expand...

Your explanation about the flashing headlight now makes some sense. If I accelerate the locomotive the light flashes but if I hold a speed with the light either on or off it maintains that configuration. So I have learned that it is not the locomotive with a loose wire.
 
Sarah Winfield said:
Your explanation about the flashing headlight now makes some sense. If I accelerate the locomotive the light flashes but if I hold a speed with the light either on or off it maintains that configuration. So I have learned that it is not the locomotive with a loose wire.
Click to expand...

Correct Sarah..
As you increase the speed, the speed-step number increases. As the central station and decoder are computers, they 'talk' in binary numbers. One 'bit' of this binary number causes the light to be 'on' or 'off'. This bit changes as the speed-step increases, or decreases, but stays the same when running at a constant speed.
Hence the effect you have noted.
 
On all DCC decoders, the decoder (loco) has an address that is in use (there are short, long, and consist addresses, but only one is active at a time).

On virtually all DCC control systems, you run a loco by specifying it's address...

On your EZ-DCC system, they changed things a bit to make it easier. You basically have up to 9 locos "saved" in your system, and you push button 1 through 9 to control them. Effectively the REAL DCC address is "hidden" from you.

So, in a way, it is simpler, because you don't need to know how the loco is set up, you basically "pair" a loco with a number from 1 to 9.

The downside is if you go to another system, you really don't know what is what. So the literal answer to your question "is loco #2 on my system going to be loco #2 on another system" is NO.

Hopefully that is a better explanation.


Regards, Greg
 
PhilP said:
Correct Sarah..
As you increase the speed, the speed-step number increases. As the central station and decoder are computers, they 'talk' in binary numbers. One 'bit' of this binary number causes the light to be 'on' or 'off'. This bit changes as the speed-step increases, or decreases, but stays the same when running at a constant speed.
Hence the effect you have noted.
Click to expand...


....And of course, if both the control station AND the decoder are set to the same number of speed steps (either both 14, or both 28), then this problem with the lights will NOT happen - they will either be on or off according to the command you have sent with the lighting function control button. The flashing effect only happens when the speed steps are mismatched.


Jon.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom