laying track to avoid derailments

[miniboB]

This is my first post I'm new to the forum. I'm in early stages of constructing my garden railway. I have a loop inside and a hole thru my basment wall going to the outside Till recently I have two bachmann engines a K27 and a c19. These have performed well on the track laid so far.. in november i bought a accurcraft K28 my favorite NG engine. I got it converted to battery/sound a week or so ago. I've run it and have quickly learned it's very picky about track. after watching it derail etc I realized it has much less flexibility and the flanges are only .070" versus .115" for bachmann. I'm redoing my in the basement loop and when weather warms wlll be working outside. Question? Should I solder the joints after getting them aligned good and tight? Where the track is on wood should I screw the ties/sleepers down. Mostly useing piko/lgb switches. I notice the wheels on the K28 drop slightly at the switch frogs. Any remedy? Any advise would be appreciated. Don't know british name for frog? sorry bout be long winded. boB

 

[Fred Mills]

The main problem with those "Beautiful Accucraft locos", and other equipment, is their devotion to scale wheels/flanges/treads, and the track you are trying to operate on.
First, is the sloppiness in the area of frogs and guardrails at switches (Points), and if you are attempting to use anything less than a 5 foot radius curve, or switch...you are asking for trouble.
It's great to enjoy having locomotives and equipment built very close to scale, but your track work has to be just as close to scale to accommodate it.
Bachmann allows that "Sloppiness", and that's why it runs better for you on your trackage.

 

[maxi-model]

I have both the Bachmann K-27 and the Accucraft K-28 (though mine is the live steam version). The Accucraft locos lack the sideplay that is built into the Bachmann K-27's drivetrain/axle arrangement. And while the K-28 is built with sprung axles, like the K-27, these are effectively "locked" by a metal cap over each axle horn guide (I have heard of some who have "unlocked" the suspension on these locos). Hence the Accucraft model is somewhat less forgiving over less than evenly laid trackwork and needs at the bare minimum 4' radius curve or a 6' switch (or more depending on what you are hauling and if you have any grades) to progress without frequent derailments. Both makes are perfectly happy running on LGB, and compatible, code 332 rail based track systems. Secure your trackwork if you wish but I run all my locos on track laid loose on ballast with no problems. just make sure you don't have any "tight spots" where the curve radii is a little suspect.

With regards to soldering the track ends - that only really helps with electrical conductivity on your track. Use track clamps, of the correct type for our rail type, rather than conventional "fishplate" rail joiners - they help maintain much better alignment of the track. If you are using flexi-track bend it with a proper rail bender not your belly.

If your K-28 is an old one did it have pick ups on one side on the drivers alone and the other side on the tender wheels? That set up will show up all the electrical deficiencies in your layout. I converted my Accucraft k-27 to battery power too as a last resort. Max

 

[miniboB]

I have both the Bachmann K-27 and the Accucraft K-28 (though mine is the live steam version). The Accucraft locos lack the sideplay that is built into the Bachmann K-27's drivetrain/axle arrangement. And while the K-28 is built with sprung axles, like the K-27, these are effectively "locked" by a metal cap over each axle horn guide (I have heard of some who have "unlocked" the suspension on these locos). Hence the Accucraft model is somewhat less forgiving over less than evenly laid trackwork and needs at the bare minimum 4' radius curve or a 6' switch (or more depending on what you are hauling and if you have any grades) to progress without frequent derailments. Both makes are perfectly happy running on LGB, and compatible, code 332 rail based track systems. Secure your trackwork if you wish but I run all my locos on track laid loose on ballast with no problems. just make sure you don't have any "tight spots" where the curve radii is a little suspect.

With regards to soldering the track ends - that only really helps with electrical conductivity on your track. Use track clamps, of the correct type for our rail type, rather than conventional "fishplate" rail joiners - they help maintain much better alignment of the track. If you are using flexi-track bend it with a proper rail bender not your belly.

If your K-28 is an old one did it have pick ups on one side on the drivers alone and the other side on the tender wheels? That set up will show up all the electrical deficiencies in your layout. I converted my Accucraft k-27 to battery power too as a last resort. Max

i'm increasing my inside from 4 to 5 foot radius. already going 8 foot outside. i'll not solder for now. thanks for your time.

 

[Greg Elmassian]

Do NOT solder! Solder is not structural and will crack as rails move and expand and contract. If you have the money, get rail clamps:

Track power, wiring & rail clamps

Greg Elmassian web site on large scale trains and garden railroads, cigars, and computers

elmassian.com

Check cross level on the track (small level across the track). Besides not having sharp transitions up and down (which will allow the wheels to lift off the rails), cross level problems (sometimes called warp) is very hard for large steamers to handle.

Screwing track down is one of the first mistakes newbies make. Inside where temperature variations are minimal usually no problem. Outdoors you cannot repeal the laws of physics, the track will expand and contract and cause big issues. Loosely fix the track to the base every 4 feet or so, or free float in ballast.

Our trains are large enough that prototype practices in roadbed construction actually map, just like scale weight and speed.

Greg

 

[Paul M]

Welcome to the forum, as you've found out you'll get plenty of help on here! As stated, one of the important things to remember is that the track WILL move, and tightening it down will make matters worse as it would probably cause it to buckle. Personally on my flexitrack, I've fixed the curves, but left the straights loose to take any expansion. (Our climate here doesn't have the huge variation that you can get in America)

 

[Fred2179G]

I realized it has much less flexibility and the flanges are only .070" versus .115" for bachmann.

You will also find that the back-to-back measurement between the wheels (behind the flanges) is actually more critical than the flange depth. Bachmann, LGB, etc., who make "toy" trains, use a wider, taller flange (as you discovered) and don't spread the wheels out to 1.575", which is the G1MRA recommendation.
Smaller flanges only matter if your track is not flat and level, or if your joints are rough. But properly gauged wheels at the G1MRA standard will not like going through LGB or similar points/switches.

I have had many conversations with folk who start building a railway with LGB track, and then discover that their latest Accucraft acquisition will not go through the points/switches. (And vice versa - I have one friend with scale track and many non-scale wheels: my Piko 0-4-0 bounces over his frogs as it can't get in between the check rails.)
You can shim the check rail of an LGB point/switch with a thin piece of brass to keep the scale wheels away from the frog - but this will upset the LGB and Backmann wheels. There is no easy solution; you really have to pick a standard and stick to it.

 

[GAP]

On my last layout I soldered all the joints that were near the centre of a curve, I made my own "Fishplates" and they were longer than the bought ones.
I squeezed the Fishplates as tight against the rail as I could get them (I uses a piece of steel ground at one end so that it would fit against the foot of the rail, then I soldered the joint to give extra strength. To add further strength on some of the joints I used a device sold by "SanVal" called the conductor basically a stainless steel square with 4 screws in each corner that tightened onto the "Fishplate".
I solder all my joints on curves in both the scales I run HO and G as I have found that it eliminates kinking at the joint.
Where the joins were not in curves I used a combination of rail clamps and "Fishplate" joiners the latter had 1mm gaps to allow for expansion and contraction (in winter Temps around 3-4C (37F) I had a joint just before a bridge that was 3mm wide but completely closed in summer temps up to 42C (108F)).
So far on my latest layout I have only 1 join on a curve and I used a Hillman double sized clamp to prevent kinking at the join (it is on a high trestle so derailments on it are mitigated at all costs)
For attaching rail to the ground I used cut down tent pegs through holes in the sleepers with oversize holes to allow movement every 2 Meters (6Ft).
This time I will use screws again with oversize holes and flat heads to prevent vertical flexing.

 

[Fred2179G]

I used a Hillman double sized clamp to prevent kinking at the join

If the rail is properly curved/bent to the desired radius, there should be no kinking. Kinks happen when the rails are trying to straighten themselves out. Perhaps a dual rail bender could help you get the desired curve before you clamp them together?

 

[GAP]

If the rail is properly curved/bent to the desired radius, there should be no kinking. Kinks happen when the rails are trying to straighten themselves out. Perhaps a dual rail bender could help you get the desired curve before you clamp them together?

I would love a dual rail bender but lack of funds prevent me from having one so I make do with what I have got. Unless of course somebody would like to buy me one.
I have a single rail bender and the end is always straight for the width of the bender so what I do is my solution to the problem.

 

[dunnyrail]

Sage wisdom is not to Solder Track Joints and this is good advice, however there is nothing wrong with soldering one end of the fishplate before installation. Doing 2 of track and 3 on Points (switches) much as is done with ready to run track supplied with fishplates in is nit an issue. At the same time you could solder bonding wires in thet will then just need to be soldered to the rail that had no fishplate till you joined the Track.

However if your finances are up to it Track Clamps are a much better bet and also have that added fact that alterations are easier and give a level of security. What thief could walk down the Street inconspicuously with a 40ft circle of Track in his arm?

 

[GAP]

I also forgot to mention that I solder my joints prior to bending so in effect I have 12 Ft lengths that I bend, the solder reinforces the joiner.
Plus I do not solder straight joints.
Tricky to manage but doable.
I use a blow torch and plumbers solder with a silver content, the main issue with solder joints cracking is that the thickness is too small, it is not electrical standard ie a thin film of metal but more plumber standard i.e. lots of metal in the joint area.
Most people use 50/50 solder (50% lead/50% tin) which is to soft hence the cracking.
Electrical continuity is not an issue for me as it really should not be for the OP we both use battery power its the strength of the joint.