Kerr-Stuart Brazil class

[bobg]

Hi All,

I've been contemplating a second steamer for the T.V.B.L. and I have been offered a S/H gauge-convertable Kerr-Stuart Brazil Class. I haven't seen it yet, but I assume (probably wrongly, knowing me) that it could be an Accucraft Excelsior (discontinued).
Notwithstanding all the usual advice about S/H locos, has anyone had experience of one of these, and how does it compare with other smallish locos, and is there anything else it could be, for an 'off the shelf' loco? What sort of value does it have, I cant find a new price listed.

 

[New Haven Neil]

If it is an Excelsior, box stock they are a bit 'flighty' as they have very small cylinders. (Same as a Ruby, I think). Many have been converted with larger cylinders, which makes them as good as later Accu UK locos.

If it's cheap, then OK, but don't expect the controllability of Edrigs and similar locos. If it's not cheap, there is a new version coming out in the Autumn, wait for that, it'll be a cracker!!

NHN

 

[bobg]

Thanks Neil,

That's a good start. I've still no idea what they cost new so therefore no idea what it might be worth when I eventually see it. I don't even know if it's R/C or not yet, I suspect not from the description (3rd hand).

 

[Ferrysteam]

I'd hang on for the Accucraft Leader if I were you,it's got the larger cylinders of the standard locos.

 

[Sea Lion]

The sample of Leader was being finished at the factory last week, so sample photos soonish. Will be a very attractive proposition at the price, should retail at around £580 manual and £760 r/c.

Apart from being a good runner Leader should also look better than Excelsior.

If I was offered a s/h Excelsior I'd want to see it run as it might have been "fettled" and be a good un, or it might not!

Happy steamings,

John

 

[bobg]

Thanks John, useful info.

With luck I will be able to have the Excelsior(?) here for a day or two to play with, before I decide.

It would seem that with the new one immanent, the value of an un-retouched s/h one would be a little less than before.

 

[Midwalesstokie]

GRS had (they may still have) a manual Excelsior in their secondhand section for £495. They're normally at the top of the price scale so anything beneath that would be acceptable.

They're a nice looking loco though and a new Leader will probably be heading my way when they come out!

 

[thecsmann]

Hi

i have 3 of these , one of the best looking locos around. dealers now seam to be charging £460 iish for one that is very good unmarked factory finish

now on to what they like if manual and with out up grades.
they can be very fussy one day they work fine the other not ! not locos for people not use to live steam.

the burner is not very good lots of noise not much heat.
small boiler and gas tank mean a run time of 15mins if you put a new burner in you will need to fit a top up valve as the water then runs out before the gas!( the oorgnalburner works better on mixed gas, but you will still need a top up vale)

with the orginal cylinders it does not have low down grunt , if you run with a long train or on grades it will only work fast . on a flat line with a small train it works well at a better speed.

with new cylinders it is works a lot better but you need a new burner and top up valve as it uses more steam.

these are not like other acuccraft locos they give the impression of not being build in a factory more garden shead as bolt holes may be in a difrent place just a bit but does mean when rebuilding it can be a bit more work.

i still like them i have one which is almost orgnial and one with new cylinders and one compleatlley rebuilt.

hope this of iinterest

 

[bobg]

Many thanks for that Chris.

 

[bobg]

I now have the aforementioned loco in my posession for evaluation trials. The original purchaser is deceased but I am reliably informed that it has only been steamed on a couple of occasions. The overall condition is that of 'straight from the box', and thereby a problem for me in that it is also sans box. Other than that it is seemingly unmarked, having been mostly displayed. The rest of the contents of the box ARE included, with the spare axle for convertion to 45mm. It is not R/C but there are holes for fitting the Rx switch in the bunker so shouldn't be too difficult to fit. There is no water gauge on the boiler, but it has been supplied with a refill plug. It is only fitted with centre buffers and no couplers.

Steam trials will be conducted this afternoon if the 'free boiler water' holds off long enough.

 

[Doug]

Spotted it on the Accucraft stand at Stoneleigh this year:

 

[Ferrysteam]

The Leader should have a superheater fitted where Excelsior does not.

 

[brianthesnail96]

Sounds like pretty much standard trim to me Bob, only the bigger Accucraft locos (not sure about Superior and Joan) have gauge glasses. The refill (assuming you mean an in steam one for use with a spray pump) will be aftermarket, and I'm not sure but I reckon the safety valve cover is too. I think every Accucraft loco is "r/c ready" in that holes are provided for a servo and a switch.

Judging by the dull paint on the smokebox door it's been run a few times; that said, these early locos have less refined burners than later ones and no baffle on the inside of the door so it's easily done.

 

[bobg]

Steam tests, tested. I cant say completed because there's all afternoon yet.

What have I discovered? Well, nothing of any real import! Excelsior's burner seemed to work well and was more controllable than Countess' even after the grease had been applied to the gas valve, which I must say has changed its characteristics a shade, but it's still mighty touchy.

Matt, the smoke-box door looks, on closer inspection, to have been "weathered", i.e. re-painted matt black, and the dart handles were loose. The safety valve looks original, or at least the paint looks undisturbed.

The lack of a proper coupling (paper clip) made life difficult as regards pulling any load but it did manage what I put behind it well enough, but was obviously not as powerful as Countess. I checked the cylinders and they are only 3/8" dia.

Manual operation on my track is not for the feint hearted of the infirm (me, probably), the severe grades mean that it will run away too easily especially with any load, so I would have to R/C it for it to be any use, as well as perhaps fitting larger cyls. Having said that, I think it looks very well alongside Countess, and from that point of view would compliment the fleet, so if the price is right (still to be negotiated), I might just indulge.

My very grateful thanks to all those that took the trouble to reply to this thread, there is nothing quite like taking a step into the dark unknown, and your help has insured that this wasn't so blind.

 

[brianthesnail96]

Doug's photo shows the safety valve cover to be standard fit- I was wrong there!

It does look well alongside the Countess certainly. I doubt the larger cylinders are still availiable, but I'm sure if the need arose you could make your own! I suspect full (2 channel) r/c would make a difference to the controllabillity but I don't think it'll ever be a heavy hauler as standard. As you say- if the price is right!

 

[bobg]

Yes Matt, I'm fairly sure if push came to shove I could actually bore out these cyls, I might not get a full 1/2" but probably not far off.

I understand it's more usual to only R/C F&R on these but I agree that full R/C would be much better.

 

[Midwalesstokie]

The cylinders may still be available, have a look at this link http://www.sm32.co.uk/ click on products and then super excelsior.

Looks a very nice engine and if the price is right I'd go for it.

 

[brianthesnail96]

Does say "in stock- 12/01/2006" on the website though James, hence my caution!

Apparently he has been cutting down the amount of 16mm stuff he does as his interests lie more in G1 now. Worth an ask though!

 

[bobg]

Hmmm. Intersting. It shows stock at 2006 but nothing later. Obviously a phone call needed. Also I'm surprised to see 9/16" bore, sounds BIG.

Cheers for the info.

 

[Midwalesstokie]

Does say "in stock- 12/01/2006" on the website though James, hence my caution!

Apparently he has been cutting down the amount of 16mm stuff he does as his interests lie more in G1 now. Worth an ask though!

I didn't read that bit Matt!!!!

He's a helpful chap though, I rang him to ask about a chimney for Superior and although he doesn't make them anymore he gave me the dimensions and Phil (Philbahn of this parish) produced one for me.

From what I gather he produces limited runs of things, 200 units or so, and when they're gone they're gone. But you never know!