Jumpers for track joints in situ?

[Topogardenmike]

About 12 years ago when I laid Conifer Junction I used the carbon grease in fishplate method. It has served me well but in some area of my railway the fish plated joints are having continuity problems. I have in mind to fit jumpers but even with my large electric soldering iron the large section rails will conduct the heat away before the solder reaches melting temperature. Anyone any experience of using some form of gas based heat. I don't want to damage sleeps. Advice appreciated.

 

[ebay mike]

About 12 years ago when I laid Conifer Junction I used the carbon grease in fishplate method. It has served me well but in some area of my railway the fish plated joints are having continuity problems. I have in mind to fit jumpers but even with my large electric soldering iron the large section rails will conduct the heat away before the solder reaches melting temperature. Anyone any experience of using some form of gas based heat. I don't want to damage sleeps. Advice appreciated.

Might sound sacrilegious but I've been using rail clamps cut in half and 1mm copper domestic lighting cable to bridge gaps and also to feed moving point blades where power needed to be restored. My soldering is of the Yorkshire plumbing joint type!

 

[fridge]

About 12 years ago when I laid Conifer Junction I used the carbon grease in fishplate method. It has served me well but in some area of my railway the fish plated joints are having continuity problems. I have in mind to fit jumpers but even with my large electric soldering iron the large section rails will conduct the heat away before the solder reaches melting temperature. Anyone any experience of using some form of gas based heat. I don't want to damage sleeps. Advice appreciated.

I'm afraid you risk sleeper damage whether you use a gas torch or soldering iron. In my case this has usually resulted from not paying enough attention to what I was doing! I have a hand held gas blowtorch which I use in winter and in summer I use a Weller 75w iron. I find both satisfactory, but you do need patience to get a good result.

 

[dunnyrail]

You certainly need a good heavy Soldering Iron, 75W or better. My experience is to heat up the Webb where there is somewhat less Rail to heat. Also if you hold the wire into place with the Iron whilst doing this you then have a hand free to put some Solder Wire to the joint whilst waiting for it to run onto the Webb and Wire. Once this has happened, use a screwdriver or something (coffee stirer) to hold the wire in place as you remove the Iron. If find that I get 100% success with this method.

Sorry to sound like egg sucking advising granny, but Rail and Wire MUST be well cleaned up first.

The other thing is that as the Cold Weather approaches Soldering outside does get a bit trickier. So you do not have too long to get the job done till warmer weather next year.
JonD

 

[Nodrog1826]

I have used a male flat spade connectors and wire, simply pushed between the foot of the rail and the plastic between the sleepers, as a temporary jumper without any real problems.

 

[Rhinochugger]

There is a brass modeller's solder which melts at 145 degrees, and requires a liquid flux.

I've never used it outside. I tend to use it if I'm adding electrical bits to existing loco wiring, on the basis that I'm unlikely to melt anything while I add my bit.

Oh, and I also use it for soldering etched brass or nickel silver kits

You used to be able to get a rail clamp that went over the fish plates, but that means undoing each joint to clean it up first. I also suspect that the fixed end of the fish plate could be as suspect as the free end. Hence my preference for Aristo / Bachmann screwed fishplates

 

[Wistow vale rlwy]

About 12 years ago when I laid Conifer Junction I used the carbon grease in fishp

There is a brass modeller's solder which melts at 145 degrees, and requires a liquid flux.

I've never used it outside. I tend to use it if I'm adding electrical bits to existing loco wiring, on the basis that I'm unlikely to melt anything while I add my bit.

Oh, and I also use it for soldering etched brass or nickel silver kits

You used to be able to get a rail clamp that went over the fish plates, but that means undoing each joint to clean it up first. I also suspect that the fixed end of the fish plate could be as suspect as the free end. Hence my preference for Aristo / Bachmann screwed fishplates

I have used the over the fishplate rail clamps with great success as they provide a quick and effective fix. I have not had to remove the existing fishplate to clean it up first - I just apply a good covering of WD 40 or similar to the bad joint and then fit the clamp. Not cheap and when new quite noticeable, but when weathered not so bad. They look a lot better than my soldering!

 

[merlin]

The screws for screwed fish-plates also offer another solution to installing jumpers or feeders. I use very small diameter ring tags crimped or soldered to the wire and attached to the rail using said fish-plate screws and a smear of graphite grease or 'copperslip'. This avoids the risk of damaging self and sleepers with heat, can be done in any temperature and can be easily removed for repair or modification, and a small diameter hole in the web is hardly noticeable if a piece of track subsequently gets used elsewhere where a connection isn't needed.
It is also possible to recover continuity by using these screws on slip-on fish=plates. (The hole does need to go through the inside flange of the fish-plate as well, as the tap will need to go far enough to cut a complete thread) However, to a large extent it does depend on where these maintenance activities, as opposed to installation during track laying, are carried out. For obvious reasons the drill, and the tap, needs to be as horizontal as possible which can be very difficult where adjacent track is present, and particularly so at the exit end of points. A small modelers hand drill held with the drive wheel horizontal is awkward but does allow almost correct alignment. And I use a home-made spanner to drive the tap. The presence of fixed scenery, retaining walls, fences, platforms etc usually means, unfortunately, that the track needs to be lifted.

 

[PhilP]

If soldering, an old ring-binder can be useful if there is any wind.. Amazing how much heat is taken away by the lightest of breezes.

A couple of blocks of inch-square mild steel, long enough to sit on both rails, just past the sleepers either side of where you are soldering should take care of enough heat to stop damage to the sleepers.

 

[Rhinochugger]

Personally, I don't do it, it's not necessary, just use Aristo / Bachmann screwed fishplates and....................


A length of cooker cable across the middle of the garden circuit

 

[Greg Elmassian]

Spot welders can be found on the used market inexpensively. They will not heat the rail or sleepers. It might be a worthwhile investment.

I can solder rails with a large, old school "iron" often over 100 watts. A physically large iron will have enough heat reserve to solder the rail quickly. Something smaller will have to be applied longer and heat the surroundings more.

Greg

 

[dunnyrail]

Personally, I don't do it, it's not necessary, just use Aristo / Bachmann screwed fishplates and....................


A length of cooker cable across the middle of the garden circuit

Good idea and I use this method most of the time. Howevr I have a few places where it is not possible.
- Second Hand part of my Layout that has all the Peco Track Ballasted.
- In a Rush with a new section and just run out of Track Clamps.
- Peco Track since the demise of Hillman Clamps, Massoth Code 200/250 Clamps do not appear to be available yet.
In these cases I resort to my Trusty Lumpy Soldering Iron.
JonD

 

[Tanker man]

Hi
Shops like Maplins sell a 'third hand' it has a weighted base and a couple of croc clips on adjustable arms, I find this ideal for holding the wire to the rail to be soldered, it gives you a free hand for the solder. Just make sure the clip is lower than the wire so as not to take away too much heat. Anybody else found that despite how you tighten up the Aristo fishplate screws, after time they work loose or fall out, I generally have to go round once a year and tighten up or replace lost screws.
Dave

 

[Rhinochugger]

. Anybody else found that despite how you tighten up the Aristo fishplate screws, after time they work loose or fall out, I generally have to go round once a year and tighten up or replace lost screws.
Dave

Steve Lewis used to say the same thing, but I've only ever had to tighten the odd one here and there after about 4 or 5 years.

Perhaps because I don't use my railway on a daily basis.............

 

[dunnyrail]

Anybody else found that despite how you tighten up the Aristo fishplate screws, after time they work loose or fall out, I generally have to go round once a year and tighten up or replace lost screws.
Dave

The Ruschbahn used Aristo Track extensively in the Hidden Part of the Mountains, do not remember retightening being an issue. But perhaps Andy did it when I was not present. Sadly we shall never know the answer in this case.
JonD

 

[van5]

The Ruschbahn used Aristo Track extensively in the Hidden Part of the Mountains, do not remember retightening being an issue. But perhaps Andy dud it when I was not present. Sadly we shall never know the answer in this case.
JonD

 

[van5]

About the only hing I got right with my garden railway was the inter rail connections. Every rail end was drilled and tapped 8 BA. Small brass cap head screws inserted and tinned copper wire soldered between the screw heads, easy with a small iron,no heat to sleepers etc. At the same time I ran a ring main below the track boards with jumpers up the the inter rail connections.A good ten years ago, no problems but the railway out of use as the so-called marine ply has de-laminated badly this year.

 

[KeithT]

For years I have used a little portable gas powered iron the size of a bulky fountain pen. Used along with aggressive flux, washed off afterwards I have managed to solder to LGB rail successfully and I consider nyself rubbish at precision soldering.

 

[LVT]

For years I have used a little portable gas powered iron the size of a bulky fountain pen. Used along with aggressive flux, washed off afterwards I have managed to solder to LGB rail successfully and I consider nyself rubbish at precision soldering.

For nearly 20 years I have been dealing with this on 400 feet of track (some pieces are over 30 years old/LGB and Aristo) in a stone ballast base and have evolved to this process:
1. Using a motor tool with a fairly aggressive stone, polish a finger-size portion of the top of the rail foot after the first sleeper past the joint you are jumping. (I found that a wire brush is no match for the grindstone.)
2. Put a dab of paste flux on the polished surface. (Not all fluxes work equally well, a bit of search/experimentation/luck may be needed.)
3. I use a 250 watt trigger soldering gun (a.k.a. Weller D550) to create a pad of rosin core solder where the flux was applied.
4. I then press the end of 2mm (or larger) desoldering wick into the solder pad with the gun's tip and then unreel the wick until I reach the next pad, solder, and cut, leaving a jumper across the joint about 2 inches long and snug (if I was careful) against the rail. I initially experimented with the desoldering wick because I liked its flexibilty and its eagerness to attach to solder (no tinning). I was dubious about its durabilty, but time has erased all doubt. Other than the occasional poor solder joint from earlier evolutions of the process and rare damage by rodents or birds (misidentifying a worm , perhaps) performance and durability are quite satisfactory, and I couldn't operate my low maintenance dc railway without it.

 

[KeithT]

For nearly 20 years I have been dealing with this on 400 feet of track (some pieces are over 30 years old/LGB and Aristo) in a stone ballast base and have evolved to this process:
1. Using a motor tool with a fairly aggressive stone, polish a finger-size portion of the top of the rail foot after the first sleeper past the joint you are jumping. (I found that a wire brush is no match for the grindstone.)
2. Put a dab of paste flux on the polished surface. (Not all fluxes work equally well, a bit of search/experimentation/luck may be needed.)
3. I use a 250 watt trigger soldering gun (a.k.a. Weller D550) to create a pad of rosin core solder where the flux was applied.
4. I then press the end of 2mm (or larger) desoldering wick into the solder pad with the gun's tip and then unreel the wick until I reach the next pad, solder, and cut, leaving a jumper across the joint about 2 inches long and snug (if I was careful) against the rail. I initially experimented with the desoldering wick because I liked its flexibilty and its eagerness to attach to solder (no tinning). I was dubious about its durabilty, but time has erased all doubt. Other than the occasional poor solder joint from earlier evolutions of the process and rare damage by rodents or birds (misidentifying a worm , perhaps) performance and durability are quite satisfactory, and I couldn't operate my low maintenance dc railway without it.

That is clever.