issue with ESU dual smoke generator (LeoSoundlab config BR99 23-24)

bruno.degraeve

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10 Oct 2021
9
1
Brussels, Belgium
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Hello to everyone,

Recently I bought an ESU Loksound 5 XL and compatible ESU Raucherzeuger Dual (#54677). The decoder is now built in an LGB 21812 (HSB Harzbulle) loc and runs very smoothly and the sound that it produces is magnificent.

Next step was to configure the smoke generator.

According the paper (from LeoSoundLab) I received with the decoder, F10 is set as “Rauchgenerator”, but when I checked the logical functions, it was not set as described> No big deal, I could change it myself via JMRI and when now pressing F10, the smoke generator is enabled (fans starts running). I assume this config of the smoke generator is working so far; all connections should be made as described in the manual.

But I have the impression the decoder with the LeoSoundLab sound config for a HSB BR 99 23-24, is not configured for a dual smoke generator. The smoke for the cylinders leaves via the small fan and when increasing the speed, the smoke on the top doesn’t increase. On the contrary, when reducing speed, more smoke comes out.

I can share a small recording, the current settings captured via JMRI or anything else that would help to debug the setup. Link to the video recordings: 20211013_142508.mp4 and 20211013_142956.mp4

I hope somebody can share his ideas and try to find a solution. Either this is faulty ESU smoke generator, a bad configuration on my side or something related to the config of LeoSoundlab ? I believe it must be a setting somehow as I've see a comment on Youtube of somebody facing the same issue.

kind regards from Brussels, Belgium.
 

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dunnyrail

DOGS, Garden Railways, Steam Trains, Jive Dancing,
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Well done for getting the boiler off, I have been trying to do a battery conversion to my one but even though I have the official breakdown drawing there must still be some hidden sceprews somewhere that are hiding from me, any clues please?
 

Keith RhB

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23 Oct 2012
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Interesting. My suspicion is that the smoke maker is configured to smoke more/less depending on the load on the engine, and not just set to puff every cylinder pulse. Try putting a load on the drive axles while it’s running and see if the smoke increases as you load up the drivers. I think the temporary increase in smoke is to simulate the blower flow at idle. If it responds as above, then you should be able to change a CV to go from load-dependent smoke to regular chuff/position triggered smoke.
 

bruno.degraeve

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10 Oct 2021
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Brussels, Belgium
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Well done for getting the boiler off, I have been trying to do a battery conversion to my one but even though I have the official breakdown drawing there must still be some hidden sceprews somewhere that are hiding from me, any clues please?
hi DunnyRail, you have to unscrew 7 screws in total. 3 on each side and one in the middle, just below the hatch. That's the theory. I admit, it didn't detach that easily but that was all I had to do.
 

bruno.degraeve

Registered
10 Oct 2021
9
1
Brussels, Belgium
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Interesting. My suspicion is that the smoke maker is configured to smoke more/less depending on the load on the engine, and not just set to puff every cylinder pulse. Try putting a load on the drive axles while it’s running and see if the smoke increases as you load up the drivers. I think the temporary increase in smoke is to simulate the blower flow at idle. If it responds as above, then you should be able to change a CV to go from load-dependent smoke to regular chuff/position triggered smoke.
Thanks Keith, before I make a change to the many CVs you have, I'll wait for feedback of LeoSoundLab if the sound and related config, was setup with cylinder smoke in mind in the first place. Maybe it is configured for a normal smoke generator. The smoke that comes out of the upper isn't my biggest concern. I'm really doubting why the fan, controlling the flow to the bottom is not blowing but kind of inhaling (hence the smoke that comes out via the lower fan).
 

Greg Elmassian

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Just curious, does the fan pulse an and off as you move slowly, or is it on constantly?

I'd try to sort out what the configuration is first, but that's me, I would read out the CV's and see what APPEARS to be set.

Very strange about less smoke at higher speeds, but again, is the fan speed varying or it just seems to have less smoke as it is moving? Moving will always "thin out" the visible smoke.

Greg
 

dunnyrail

DOGS, Garden Railways, Steam Trains, Jive Dancing,
25 Oct 2009
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hi DunnyRail, you have to unscrew 7 screws in total. 3 on each side and one in the middle, just below the hatch. That's the theory. I admit, it didn't detach that easily but that was all I had to do.
Bruno thanks, think I found the 6 it was that hatch one that I missed, just looked at my loc and there eppears to be one in the region of the front unpowered pony wheel. Is that the one that you mean as I am not quite sure what you mean by hatch, smokebox perhaps? Looks almost impossible to get at with a screwdriver.

Aha got it, the front buffer beam and assembly comes off with 2 small screws either side and 1 in the middle of the assembly, this then gives access to that impossible middle 7th screw.

Many thanks you put me on the right tracks!
 

LGB333

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Bruno - The ESU smoker's installation instructions should explain the settings required on the ESU 5XL Sound Decoder. I only use the Massoth pulsed smoke generators so don't have any experience with the ESU smokers but the settings are probably the same or very similar for both smokers. You need to use an ESU LokProgrammer to do the following ESU 5XL settings. FUNCTION MAPPING MENU: Set F7 Phyiscal Outputs to AUX1 and AUX2; Set Logical Function to ESU Smoker; Set Sounds to Slot 1. FUNCTION OUTPUTS MENU: AUX1, Drop Down Menu, set to External Controlled Smoke Unit; then check the Box for ESU Smoke Unit (Gauge O, G); then set AUX2 to Output Mode to Trigger Smoke Chuff. Then SOUNDS MENU: Go to Slot Settings - Slot Configuration; Double Click on Slot 1 to open the listing; Click on State, then scroll down to ESU Smoke Unit and check the box "Steam Chuff." "Write" Decoder Settings on the LokProgrammer.
 

bruno.degraeve

Registered
10 Oct 2021
9
1
Brussels, Belgium
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Just curious, does the fan pulse an and off as you move slowly, or is it on constantly?

I'd try to sort out what the configuration is first, but that's me, I would read out the CV's and see what APPEARS to be set.

Very strange about less smoke at higher speeds, but again, is the fan speed varying or it just seems to have less smoke as it is moving? Moving will always "thin out" the visible smoke.

Greg
hi Greg, thanks for the reply. As you might have seen from the recordings, the fan pulse goes on and off. Which seems to be ok to me. At least the smoke on top of the device comes out via the output and not via the fan. I'm mostly worried that the smoke that is supposed to leave the output at the bottom, leaves via the smaller fan instead of the output channel.
 

bruno.degraeve

Registered
10 Oct 2021
9
1
Brussels, Belgium
Country flag
Bruno - The ESU smoker's installation instructions should explain the settings required on the ESU 5XL Sound Decoder. I only use the Massoth pulsed smoke generators so don't have any experience with the ESU smokers but the settings are probably the same or very similar for both smokers. You need to use an ESU LokProgrammer to do the following ESU 5XL settings. FUNCTION MAPPING MENU: Set F7 Phyiscal Outputs to AUX1 and AUX2; Set Logical Function to ESU Smoker; Set Sounds to Slot 1. FUNCTION OUTPUTS MENU: AUX1, Drop Down Menu, set to External Controlled Smoke Unit; then check the Box for ESU Smoke Unit (Gauge O, G); then set AUX2 to Output Mode to Trigger Smoke Chuff. Then SOUNDS MENU: Go to Slot Settings - Slot Configuration; Double Click on Slot 1 to open the listing; Click on State, then scroll down to ESU Smoke Unit and check the box "Steam Chuff." "Write" Decoder Settings on the LokProgrammer.
hello, thanks for your reply. As I don't have the ESU LokProgrammer, I checked all the settings via JMRI which allows me to configure it almost the same way. Cables are connected as they're supposed, AUX1 and AUX2 are configured according the manual. The only thing I cannot check in depth, is how the Sound file exactly is configured. I'm waiting for feedback of LeoSoundLab from which I bought the sound and which delivers a preconfiguration of many CV values.
 

LGB333

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hello, thanks for your reply. As I don't have the ESU LokProgrammer, I checked all the settings via JMRI which allows me to configure it almost the same way. Cables are connected as they're supposed, AUX1 and AUX2 are configured according the manual. The only thing I cannot check in depth, is how the Sound file exactly is configured. I'm waiting for feedback of LeoSoundLab from which I bought the sound and which delivers a preconfiguration of many CV values.
Bruno, as you state, the fan "pulses" which means it goes on and off. The fan is off until you press the F Key to turn it on and then it starts heating the smoker element and the fan comes on. Then when you start up the locomotive into step 1, the fan stops until the first chuff is heard, and the fan then turns on and then off from that first sound pulse. The same amount of smoke is burned as the loco picks up speed but it's pushing it out the smoke stack much faster so the smoke is less dense than at slow speeds.

If you can't access the decoder's Slot 1 sound file and then check that block "Steam Chuff", the smoker isn't going to pulse with the chuff sounds.
 

Greg Elmassian

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bruno, sorry somehow I missed watching your very helpful videos.

As someone already commented, looks like you never get the chuff working, and the smoke you see is the idle, which of course goes away after the loco is underway.

Maybe the chuff input is not connected correctly. It should be pulsing.

Greg
 

bruno.degraeve

Registered
10 Oct 2021
9
1
Brussels, Belgium
Country flag
Well done for getting the boiler off, I have been trying to do a battery conversion to my one but even though I have the official breakdown drawing there must still be some hidden sceprews somewhere that are hiding from me, any clues please?
Bruno thanks, think I found the 6 it was that hatch one that I missed, just looked at my loc and there eppears to be one in the region of the front unpowered pony wheel. Is that the one that you mean as I am not quite sure what you mean by hatch, smokebox perhaps? Looks almost impossible to get at with a screwdriver.

Aha got it, the front buffer beam and assembly comes off with 2 small screws either side and 1 in the middle of the assembly, this then gives access to that impossible middle 7th screw.

Many thanks you put me on the right tracks!
hi Dunnyrail, actually, I was wrong. You have to unscrew 2 more that holds the cabine. These 2 screws are not at the bottom plate but between some space left open in some pipes. There's also a vertical black bar somewhere in the middle that is hold by two screws, I also released these.
 
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bruno.degraeve

Registered
10 Oct 2021
9
1
Brussels, Belgium
Country flag
Bruno, as you state, the fan "pulses" which means it goes on and off. The fan is off until you press the F Key to turn it on and then it starts heating the smoker element and the fan comes on. Then when you start up the locomotive into step 1, the fan stops until the first chuff is heard, and the fan then turns on and then off from that first sound pulse. The same amount of smoke is burned as the loco picks up speed but it's pushing it out the smoke stack much faster so the smoke is less dense than at slow speeds.

If you can't access the decoder's Slot 1 sound file and then check that block "Steam Chuff", the smoker isn't going to pulse with the chuff sounds.
hi Tom, thanks again for all your input. I tried many sound slots but none of them delivered a decent result. The wire connections must be corrected, it's the config that is somehow not providing the expected results. As I have no clue how the LeoSoundlab sound file has been configured, I'm more and more wondering if it supports the Dual Smoke Generator at all. The website doesn't mention it. I'm waiting for their feedback. Another option is to switch to Schwoboda sound as they seem to support the Dual Smoke Generator.
 

bruno.degraeve

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10 Oct 2021
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1
Brussels, Belgium
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Issue solved ... Without finger pointing, the shop which did the config for me, ordered and loaded a sound file without smoke settings. LeoSoundLab will ship me another configuration.
 

Greg Elmassian

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8 Mar 2014
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San Diego
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I would suggest you also request a copy of the file, and also a dump of CV settings, i.e. a printout. In my mind i would want to be able to re-load a new decoder myself for any issues in the future.

Greg