Isolating points - am I on the right track?

[Huw Jones]

Well I finally have power to my track, and the issue that has now raised its head is that the LGB R1 points are NOT isolating as I had been told they were.........
This needs a bit of thinking.......

Now in 009 I simply cut the rails, solder a piece of wire to one end of the track, solder that to a simple two way switch, and then solder the other side of the switch to the other side of the rails.
In G Scale I guess that would mean placing an insulating rail joiner, then running wires under my boards to switches in my summerhouse (to keep them out of the weather and where the controller is) and then back to the track.
Or are there weatherproof switches that folks can recommend?

I'm not using powered points (my simple LGB controller doesn't have the output for them anyway) so being able to switch the isolating sections at the same time as the point switches would be handy!

Any advice?

 

[G-force1]

Changing the subject slightly, you say your power supply isn't up to powering point motors. Why not try what I'm just setting up, run the points from a 12v battery topped up with a solar panel. Point motors don't take a lot of power anyway so you could just top the battery up from time to time with an ordinary charger.

The solar charger that I just bought off evil-buy was just £13.

There are others on here who know better what LGB equipment is available. I think they do a supplementary switch that could sort your isolating problem.

 

[a98087]

You could have a little control panel hidden in a building to keep the weather off,

I know somebody who uses standard toggle switches and just places a bucket over the control panel when it's not needed

Also the point motors take a brief, small burst of power so can easily be run off a battery topped up with a solar charger as mentioned

 

[Huw Jones]

Looking at it I think the easiest bet is to place a little bank of switches next to the control in the summerhouse.

Point motors will be the next thing to consider

 

[merlin]

These are the LGB sw boxes. The yellow one has 4 x on/off sws and the orange one 4 x 2 pole momentary sws with centre off for point motors. I use one of each myself and find them reliable, but probably a bit pricey, I haven't looked at current prices and I've had mine for more years than I care to remember!

 

[Zerogee]

These are the LGB sw boxes. The yellow one has 4 x on/off sws and the orange one 4 x 2 pole momentary sws with centre off for point motors. I use one of each myself and find them reliable, but probably a bit pricey, I haven't looked at current prices and I've had mine for more years than I care to remember!

You can sometimes find them on ebay, especially the older types (which would be fine for the on/off switching of isolating sections), for something in the region of £20-£25 or so......
They are supposed to be weatherproof when the lid over the switches is closed, and lots of folks use them outdoors.

Jon.

 

[korm kormsen]

if by "isolating" you mean, to cut power to one of the two outgoing legs of the points, you can reach that by simply cutting one of the flat metallic strips on the underside of the LGB points. (that is for sidings or passing sidings, but not enough for return loops)

 

[stockers]

Yes Korm but you still need to supply power to the track that you have now isolated.
Simplest solution is as above. Create isolating sections using insulated joiners and switch with the big outside box.
BUT, and it could be a big BUT.
Are you just thinking 009 mode here. Garden railways often operate differently (not always, but often). Less shunting, more sitting back and watching. How important are all those isolated sidings. How many locos have you got? and have you remembered that most LGB locos have an isolating switch in the cab.

 

[Huw Jones]

Ah........didn't know about the isolating switch in the cab........I'll go have a look.

Essentially I have three locos that need isolating. The Bachmann Percy and the LGB Rusty are electric powered and need to be able to sit in their respective sidings without interfering with the running of the track, and I would also like to leave Ruby on the track after she's finished steaming (she has non-isolated wheels so shorts the track if she's left in position).

I have two sidings for trucks (that seem to be good places to leave complete trains now I've started running trains on the railway), and two short sidings that are supposed to be for an engine shed. I also have a passing loop that I hope to build a little station halt on and that would end to be isolated too otherwise the trains will just keep running.

That basically means that I need 6 isolating sections which should be reasonably easy to solder, and the switches should be a piece of cake).

 

[ntpntpntp]

My line's taken up now, but in it's day I had isolating sections switched by weatherproof boxes mounted on a nearby wall (still haven't removed them yet)

 

[James Day]

Ah........didn't know about the isolating switch in the cab........I'll go have a look.

Essentially I have three locos that need isolating. The Bachmann Percy and the LGB Rusty are electric powered and need to be able to sit in their respective sidings without interfering with the running of the track, and I would also like to leave Ruby on the track after she's finished steaming (she has non-isolated wheels so shorts the track if she's left in position).

I have two sidings for trucks (that seem to be good places to leave complete trains now I've started running trains on the railway), and two short sidings that are supposed to be for an engine shed. I also have a passing loop that I hope to build a little station halt on and that would end to be isolated too otherwise the trains will just keep running.

That basically means that I need 6 isolating sections which should be reasonably easy to solder, and the switches should be a piece of cake).

The LGB isolating system is based on using a common rail, so you need to chose which one you want to isolate and then stick to it throughout the layout. The 5080, 5180 etc yellow isolating switch box works on this principle -You take a feed in from one rail and the use the switch to turn it on and off where required.

The LGB add on switches allow you to switch the power to the appropriate rail when you swithc the point, BUT these are add-ons for an EPL Drive point motor. Obviously you don't have to power the point motor, as it can be switched manually, but it is needed for the add on switch to plug into.

The other thing to consider is whether you wish to drive train in and switch it off, OR ultimately have it run and stop in the appropriate place, with a view to later automation. In essence this means either isolating the whole loop, or just the part where you would like the loco to stop.

I would reccomend the latter, as this allows you to park up a train, but keep power to the pick up van on, so the train could remain lit when parked.

Finally, although LGB point motors can be run on pure DC they are actually intended to run from Half-wave DC, so ideally they should be connected to a neat AC supply on the white terminal and bursts of the + or - have-wave dc are fed to the orange terminal. You will not be able to feed an orange point control box from a car battery, you will need the AC output from a transformer for that.

James

 

[merlin]

Even if your locos don't have isolating sws, they can be fitted if you're prepared to dismantle a loco to do the necessary wiring mods, In some cases this may mean insulating one of the motor contacts in locos where the motor contacts are in contact with L and R bussing strips connecting the skates and wheel pick-ups. A wire is soldered to the insulated motor contact (shrink tube applied after the wire is soldered on is the easiest method) and taken to the sw. The return wire from the sw is then soldered to the bussing strip. The sw can be mounted anywhere convenient. I have a PM diesel which, as it now has cab doors and glazing, has a miniature toggle sw mounted on the under-side of the cab roof accessed via a sliding hatch. A Marklin diesel has a miniature toggle sw mounted on the dashboard and a PM 0-4-0T has a slide sw mounted on the backhead. My LGB Stainz didn't have a sw and in this case I made a brass frame to which a miniature toggle sw is fitted. The frame is bolted to the cab floor and operated by a dummy reversing lever. Not good pictures I'm afraid, but the job was completed before I reviewed the photos and realised they were out of focus.

 

[ntpntpntp]

Oooh, really like that brass reversing lever & toggle. Nice job merlin!

 

[merlin]

Thanks Nick.

 

[Henri]

That is wonderful, Merlin! What a good idea!!

 

[merlin]

Thanks Henri.

 

[GNB]

In addition to the LGB 51750 EPL control box, suggested by merlin above, you will find that the bright red LGB 52750 EPL booster box is a very useful addition. I've used both for many years and were still going strong when I converted to DCC. They were housed, together with the analog controllers, in the small greenhouse I used as a signal box and both worked and survived well in that environment.

The control boxes and booster link together via the 5mm male/female connectors built into the sides of each box. You only then need a single power input.

Here's a recent G Scale central link to the booster box:
https://www.gscalecentral.net/threads/lgb-52750-booster.301012/

Here's a link to a second hand offer of a LGB 52750 EPL booster box from Garden Railway Specialists Ltd:
http://www.grsuk.com/EPL_Booster_L52750-M9008

 

[GNB]

If you want to set up your isolated sections in a position that's not always convenient to operate an on/off switch in the loco you can try the LGB12070 EPL Supplementary Switches.

These fit neatly onto the LGB EPL point motors and are operated when you switch the points and give you lots of option to control isolated section and other things. Again I've found them to be robust and have used them outside for more years than I care to remember!

Here's another example link to a popular UK supplier:
http://www.gardenrailoutlet.co.uk/lgb-epl-supplementary-switch

P.S. Here's an explanatory link that should help in answering your questions, courtesy of G Scale News:
http://www.gscalenews.com/information/signal-blocks

 

[Nemo]

Right I think things are getting over complicated for someone who has just got power to his track. What you need is a few on off switches in a small panel. You need to use the same rail to isolate all the siddings and you can take a feed from your output of the controller to that same rail, this you can solder to all the live sides of the switches. From each switch you can then run a wire to each isolating section. I strongly suggest you use Massoth isolating rail joiners as these have connecting tabs that you can solder onto (contact Mark at GRO) http://gardenrailoutlet.co.uk/massoth-insulated-rail-clamp-brass
Unlike 009, G scale track is difficult to solder to unless you have a high wattage soldering iron as the brass rail quickly absorbs the heat and you get nowhere fast.

 

[stockers]

Nice post Steve - Keep it simple.