Is there a modular layout standard for G scale?

P

Paradise

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28 Jan 2010
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On the FaceBook search page for '16mm modular' most of the links are for modular furniture and wot not.
Only one link had a 16mm scale, 32mm gauge modular layout at Statfold Barn. The video is below.
I believe the layout in the video is using the 'Association of 16mm Narrow Gauge Modelers' modular design as previously mentioned. Modular Layout Standards - Association of 16mm Narrow Gauge Modellers



The 16mm NGM modules specify a nominal radius of 169.7cm with other tracks at 15cm spacing. A smaller radius of 139.7cm is also used for tighter layouts.
I suspect a system for 45mm gauge G scale use may be more beneficial using LGB set track / point radius as nominal. Other tracks at the same spacing of 15cm then being compatible with the 16mm NGM system with the exception of mixing curve modules because of the differing nominal radius.
The modular requirements for an R1/R2, R3 or R5 are completely different and none shall be mixed on the same module because the track spacing is not in increments of 15cm.
R1 and R2 could be on the same module using R2 as nominal. The R1 could be stepped in a little to give a spacing of 15cm from the R2 instead of 18cm as it is but close spacing with small radius could create issues with passing cars. The LGB track spacing geometry for smaller radius is closer to 18cm on curves. https://www.lgb.de/fileadmin/media/lgb/service/FAQ/LGB-Technik-Tipp-201-LGB-gleissystem.pdf
These issues need to be considered if LGB track system is used on modules. As usual, the devil is in the details.
 
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JimmyB

JimmyB

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Could be a closed group? - I don't have a Facile-Book account??

<edit>
SW pulled-up the search, and it is a closed group..
it is also 16mm modular, which would need 'tweaking to accomodate G scale radii, anyway..
Phil I had a FB account for over 15 years, but got so hacked off with the drivel I had my account deleted. However I realised that with so many traders and closed groups I would need an account, so using a plausible pseudonym I opened a new account, no personal details at all, no using it to log on no use from mobile devices and I can access closed groups.
 
P

Paradise

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Below is not intended as a proposal. It is to help evaluate the scenario between the 16mm NGM module specs and the LGB track system.
I have included the Association of 16mm Narrow Gauge Modellers module nominal track radius in dark blue with optional side tracks in light blue at 150mm spacing.
The red lines are LGB R2, R3 and R5 radius as nominal with optional side tracks in orange which are also spaced at 150mm centres so they are compatible with 16mm NGM modules.
The module board length measurements were done for each potential module edge with a trigonometry calculator using the module section degree and track radius. CosSinCalc · Triangle Calculator

Issues when using the 16mm NGM module 150mm track spacing for use with the LGB track system:

Is it beneficial to have modules based on an LGB nominal track radius R3 and R5 considering that points are available in R3 and R5?
LGB R1 and R2 curved track spacing is 180mm. A spacing of 150mm on small radius curves may have problems.
A double track crossover with a pair of LGB R3 points need at least 180mm track spacing unless the diverging routes are shortened.
A double track crossover with a pair of LGB R5 points need at least 158mm track spacing unless the diverging routes are shortened.

G Scale Curve Module Reckoner
 
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R

RDFMTS2

Mountain Ash Light Railway
5 May 2015
19
2
Oldbury, West Mids
Hi Folks, There will be a 16mm association modular layout at Statfold this weekend (11th/12th May 2019) for their Giant Miniature Weekend. From the plan and list of people running I don't think there will be any 45mm track on our layout this year, however if anyone is going, I will be happy to discuss the modular system with anyone who wants to. I will be there all weekend. I am also a part of the South Birmingham local group and we do have both 32 and 45mm track on our group layout. I am the one with beard, ponytail, and often a blue drovers hat with feathers in the hatband, or just ask for David. Even if folk are not wanting to talk about modular stuff, if you are going, do call in and see us, and please make yourself known to me as it is always good to put a face to names I know for here. We will be in the museum building attached to the roundhouse. It's a really good event, loads of trains running on their 2'-0" (and other gauge) tracks, lots of steam engines/lorries/road rollers etc from around 1:20 scale up to full size. Plus their own museum/roundhouse etc. I believe tickets are available on the door, (£12.50 each day from memory, I don't work for them, they just invited us back this year, so do check with them before going), I hope to see some of you there. David
 
PhilP

PhilP

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See you Sunday!

I'll have a Hunslet-branded shirt on. - Not that i am biased, of course.. ;):)
 
dunnyrail

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PhilP

PhilP

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Tamworth, Staffs.
Of course, we are talking about G scale modules, and a proper look through the new GSS comic, there is an article about 'Whiteleaf'. - An early modular layout in G.. :rolleyes:

A bit scant on some details, but might be worth a follow-up? :think:
 
dunnyrail

dunnyrail

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Of course, we are talking about G scale modules, and a proper look through the new GSS comic, there is an article about 'Whiteleaf'. - An early modular layout in G.. :rolleyes:

A bit scant on some details, but might be worth a follow-up? :think:
Glad you said the name, Whiteleaf is a pretty modular set up as they do a large Continuous Run, Long Tram System and add some of the Tram to it as well. One or more of the members lurks here on occasion. Perhaps they may like to comment on what they have done.
 
P

Paradise

Registered
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Of course, we are talking about G scale modules, and a proper look through the new GSS comic, there is an article about 'Whiteleaf'. - An early modular layout in G.. :rolleyes:
A bit scant on some details, but might be worth a follow-up? :think:
Thanks PhilP. I am very interested in this subject as I have several sheets of ply in my carport ready to construct a transportable module layout but I have not settled on a design yet.

A modular design could be a way of breaking up a large exhibition layout of a fixed layout or a standardization of module specifications so different individuals can mix modules together for almost endless layout configurations. The second approach seems like a lot more fun but can also be restrictive in what can be done to some extent.
Exhibition modules could be fairly large considering they may have their own trailer etc. but I think modules from individuals would be better suited to being smaller as they may be a part of a small home layout and they will need to be transported by each individual to a meeting. Perhaps on the back seat of a Mini Minor. :)

Here is some info on the 'whiteleaf' modular layout. I get the impression that it's modules may be mainly 1800 x 600mm or 6' x 2' going by the overall layout sizes and images.

The Layouts
Whiteleaf Tramway - National Garden Railway Show

 
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P

Paradise

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I think a modular system for smaller radius LGB curves may need more spacing than 150mm as used on the 'Association of 16mm Narrow Gauge Modellers' module system. LGB R1 to R2 spacing is 180mm.
I don'rt really wish to reinvent the wheel as the 16mm NGM module system looks pretty good. Very simple and very modular. More suited to larger radius though.
Below is a possible approach for small radius stuff from LGB R1 radius with 175mm spacing.
It's not so much about the layout design itself but more to do with the module sizes and how they could work together. I have used LGB R1, TrainLine45 and LGB R3 points to show some possibilities.
A minimum double track circle would be only 180 x 180cm.
Discussion, feedback, constructive criticism are all welcome. We need to do this together to get it right if a small radius module system standard is to be. :nerd:
It may even fit in a Mini Minor. :clap:

G Scale Small Radius Modular Design
 
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R

RDFMTS2

Mountain Ash Light Railway
5 May 2015
19
2
Oldbury, West Mids
That looks a well thought out drawing and certainly a good start to discussion. I like the idea of just moving the outside tracks out by 25mm, in order to use set track points, thus keeping the triple track modules at 600mm, which makes cutting from 8' x 4' sheets more economical. Although it does cut down the amount of room for scenery, which has been a problem for some 16mm module builders who have later added a board each side of the 'normal width' module for scenery.

Why have you gone for such small radius curves, will that not make the operating space in the middle quite tight if more than one person operating. That is a mistake we made on our local group 'winter' layout, which has meant that we now operate from the outside if we can, the modular standard spacing allows for a set of sidings/fiddle yard or a 'tea/coffee' table to be placed in the centre of the oval and still have room to pass each other. Back to the track radius, I usually think in terms of 2.5m radius for the garden, maybe coming down as far as 1.5m radius for sidings etc. The 1.7m radius of the 16mm Modular group with 1.550m on the inside loop has proved quite tight with long locos and stock. I know that you are talking about G scale (1:20 to 1:24 scale) which is smaller, but that is not that much smaller than 1:19 scale of the 16mm NGM, so have you mixed radius and diameter perchance. This is excellent start to discussions and I look forward to seeing what other peoples thoughts are. Note I am not being negatively critical of you in any way, just making observations which I hope will be helpful, from having made and run modules (currently we have over 20 between my wife and I) at exhibitions and at our local club over the last few years.

David
 
P

Paradise

Registered
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Thanks for the reply David. For my own module layout I prefer to use larger radius curves therefore a 150mm track spacing like the 16mm NGM will work fine for me although that will require cutting of LGB R3 points for straight double track crossovers etc. Even LGB R5 points need 158mm spacing for SDT crossovers. I will probably make 1800mm long straight modules because they will fit in the back of my ute like I do. :)
The only other issue for G scale medium radius LGB R3 or larger is whether LGB nominal radius is desirable of not. There may not be much reason to do so except for points on the curves or using some set track which maybe on hand. In any case, as long as the track centres are the same 150mm as on 16mm NGM modules they will play together. These are only minor issues for larger radius and perhaps not worth straying from 16mm NGM 150mm spacing.

The above idea was specifically for the minimal R1 crowd which I believe need a wider track spacing on curves which also solves cutting LGB R1 points for SDT crossovers etc. R1 needs 161mm spacing and LGB R3 needs 180mm spacing for SDT crossovers. The TrainLine 900mm points only need 140mm. As for central standing room for the 1:1 operator/s, that can be increased in the above layout with extra straight modules at the sides. More room for scenery or a central platform can be made by omitting a track on either curve or straight modules.

Different specs for G Scale minimum radius R1 modules may be difficult to avoid but 'special' transition modules going from 150 to 175mm spacing could always be used to bring the two worlds together or just join them with a single central track then spacing is no longer an issue.
All food for thought. :think:

Below is some LGB point geometry with measurements.
https://www.lgb.de/fileadmin/media/lgb/service/FAQ/LGB-Technik-Tipp-201-LGB-gleissystem.pdf
 
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R

RDFMTS2

Mountain Ash Light Railway
5 May 2015
19
2
Oldbury, West Mids
You drawings are correct. Those smaller radius curves are indeed starting at 600mm radius. Do people really use them ? From what I see at exhibitions, there always seems to be loads of cheap unsold R1 track, and the other radius set track is like hens teeth, (that's a uk phrase for hard to find for the people the other side of the pond), or very expensive. I thought that they were what LGB supplied with starter sets, and people then start using 600mm radius in the garden, find it is too tight and sell it off to pay for more gentle radius track which actually works.

David
 
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P

Paradise

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David, I feel exactly the same about R1 but I do get the impression that some people who don't have a lot of space indoors prefer to use it. G scale trains are mostly electric and modular layouts are mostly indoors. In a home the space is often limited. Only those who prefer to use R1 would possibly be interested in the modular system for G Scale small radius above. You could ignore the R1 corner module and just use the wider radius corner module then it would be a similar radius to the Whiteleaf layout image above. It is not intended for a general G scale modular system. G scale is a bit of a small, medium or large situation rather than a one size fits all. I myself would prefer something closer to the 16mm NGM radius for live steam and electric operation because I have the space to do it but some people don't.