Is DCC dead??????????

T

Tim Brien

Registered
I just noticed the Bachmann bluetooth E-Z APP train control. It uses your smart phone or tablet and unlike DCC wireless control by smart phone it requires no peripherals such as computer, laptop, router/modem/wireless connection.

Simply apply 16 volts to track (initially developed for 'h.o.' but to be extended to other scales/gauges, place your bluetooth enabled loco on the track and download the free app from itunes or google. When theapp is selected it brings up the operation page after finding the loco.
Unlimited number of locomotives may be run. Unlike conventional DCC 'tuning', the E-Z APP hides the CV's on its setting page so all you need to do is alter an icon on the screen to raise/lower volume/brightness, change sound settings, whatever. You do not even have to know what a CV is to alter the settings on the loco (it is all displayed as an icon on the screen to alter the variables).

A bluetooth chip will become available (much like a decoder) to allow retrofitting bluetooth technology to older DCC ready locomotives.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k6xoL6NY83g
 
My first thoughts:

1) Yet another proprietary system trying to reinvent the wheel....sheesh.

2) Bluetooth may be fine for small scales indoors but very limited range not suited for garden railways outdoors

3) Big difference between a device designed for 16V and one that can handle the voltage/current, and loads that G scale can generate.

4) Stuck with using a cell phone rather than a dedicated controller with rotary throttle (ahhh...navigator....)

5) Price will most likely be much higher than a traditional decoder

6) Doesn't have the "system" approach that DCC has with computer operation, switches, lights, function decoders etc...

7) Where are you DRC300??

8) Bachmann...

Keith

P.S. I guess you can tell I'm happy with DCC. O0
 
I dunno about DCC, I reckon that's is so simple it'll kill off every other form of control eventually as well. :o

A logical progression though.


Just a thought, what happens if the phone rings? ??? ;D ;D ;D
 
It is actually DCC with just a fancy Front End, the guy in his waffle admits as much about a third of the way through the Vid.

I do like the possibility of using Phones, iPods etc. but other systems do this as well. However to be able to move a way from the pain of bad translations of how CV's are updated (LGB Massoth are you listening) will be a big improvement for some. Personally I will not be going down this road as I have too much investment in DCC mostly Massoth but with some LGB MTS Locomotives.

However if I were just starting and they had a G Scale Version, well I would be tempted.
JonD
 
Keith,
in the video link it states that the system will be extended to such things as switch control. It also will be interactive, such as the play facility when the setup is directed to such things as fuel/water consumption and the effect on the loco performance. Hornby currently have this facility on their Sapphire decoder (I do not know if other chip manufacturers have this feature).

The beauty of the system is its pure simplicity of operation. No need for a DCC controller, peripherals etc. and the touch screen operation is self explanatory in train operation and 'tuning' CV's. Basically "DCC for Dummies". The young of today do not have handheld Navigator experience and rotary throttles, they are weaned on tablet/smart phone screens and this system seems designed to capitalise on that.
 
dunnyrail said:
It is actually DCC with just a fancy Front End, the guy in his waffle admits as much about a third of the way through the Vid.

I do like the possibility of using Phones, iPods etc. but other systems do this as well. However to be able to move a way from the pain of bad translations of how CV's are updated (LGB Massoth are you listening) will be a big improvement for some. Personally I will not be going down this road as I have too much investment in DCC mostly Massoth but with some LGB MTS Locomotives.

However if I were just starting and they had a G Scale Version, well I would be tempted.
JonD
Click to expand...

Jon,
yes it is DCC, however, unlike DCC one does not need to invest in a DCC master controller, handheld Navigator cab, computer, laptop, CV programmer, wireless hi-fi, etc. All he needs is a smart phone/tablet, a power supply and a bluetooth enabled loco (or retrofitted chip). Simplicity is its virtue.

Other setups do use a mobile phone app, but for these to control a loco you need all the DCC paraphenalia.
 
bobg said:
Just a thought, what happens if the phone rings? ??? ;D ;D ;D
Click to expand...

You crash! not through any fault of the system, just that you get distracted. Anyway - you can be on farcebook at the same time and that is far more important! >:(
 
dunnyrail said:
Yes Tim, that will be a huge benefit to the newcomer.
JonD
Click to expand...

Jon,
the beauty of the system is it takes all the mystique/fear of CV's out of the question. Many newcomers are frightened off DCC when people start telling them that they need to alter CV's when the loco is not performing as expected. No previous experience is needed with this system. The settings page on the screen simply directs the operator by way of a slide icon to raise/lower or alter a performance characteristic, hiding the reality that they are actually altering CV's in doing so.

For most of us that are set in our ways and commited to our existing DCC setup the new system has little attraction. However, as you say for the newcomer the setup looks ideal (assuming power consumption and bluetooth range limits are acceptably engineered for outdoor usage). Look to the pitfalls with the Bachmann Dynamis infra-red control when used outdoors in sunlight.
 
It looks like a nice system.

However out of doors I don't think it will work well.

Although it is technically possible for Bluetooth to have a range of about 100m max, the class of device in a mobile phone is only likely to have a 5m to 10m range.

Bright sunlight outdoors makes being able to see what is on the screen difficult, wacking up the screen brightness eats batteries, as does having the screen on continually.

I don't know about you but my (knackered) phone runs out of battery in about 30minutes if I switch Bluetooth on.

Probably good for indoors, new starters, starter sets maybe (the train manufacturer doesn't have to supply a controller), but I'll stick with my DCC.
 
Cliff George said:
I don't know about you but my (knackered) phone runs out of battery in about 30minutes if I switch Bluetooth on.
Click to expand...

My new one does!!! :o :o :o Needs charging every day, more if I use it
 
How does one wire in a Bluetooth adapter to retain full DCC capability?Between track and decoder, or between decoder and motor? Would analogue locos run as most can on DCC?
 
I understand that this Bachman/ BlueRail system is based on the new Bluetooth Smart technology which, if we are to believe the experts, provides for longer range than earlier versions of Bluetooth and lower power demands. I gather that a significant change has been made in the technology to remove the need for Bluetooth devices constantly broadcasting to maintain the connection. Under Bluetooth Smart they only transmit when data transfer is required.

For me, the touch screen phone technology is the most significant weakness.

David
 
Tim, in this case simplicity= loss of control over variables by user. It might be fine to plug in one of their receivers into a Bachmann engine, but what are the chances you will ever be able to buy one set up properly for an existing LGB or other loco? Slim to none, I'd say. That's why these type of proprietary systems usually go the way of the dinosaur. If you want to be able to use it in any loco, you will still have to have a way of mapping functions or hope they get all the manufacturers to agree on an interface--and good luck with that one! For simple starter sets or their own locos...maybe.

Keith
 
How about this then.....

http://www.esu.eu/produkte/digitale-steuerung/mobile-control-ii/
 
You still need a decoder in the loco.. the Bluetooth chip just does the wireless bit between the phone app and the BT receiver..

All these ideas seem a re-invention of the wheel..

The simplest, most robust, open standard, for all this is Ethernet!
You end up with a robust data transport system (with error correction, and two way communication), wifi for wireless connections, a standard interface (which is well understood) for computer connections. A universal wiring standard to enable all devices to use the same cabling for command and control.
 
How about this then.....

http://www.esu.eu/produkte/digitale-steuerung/mobile-control-ii/
Click to expand...

Now you're talking Mark!

I think Maerklin needs to come out with that same thing if they want to sell any of their CS2's to us garden railroaders. Right now they only have the smartphone/tablet option--this is nicer.

Keith
 
Oooh....a touchscreen AND a big knob (oo-er missus....)... you'd almost think someone has actually been listening for once... :o

Jon.
 
PhilP said:
You still need a decoder in the loco.. the Bluetooth chip just does the wireless bit between the phone app and the BT receiver..

All these ideas seem a re-invention of the wheel..

The simplest, most robust, open standard, for all this is Ethernet!
You end up with a robust data transport system (with error correction, and two way communication), wifi for wireless connections, a standard interface (which is well understood) for computer connections. A universal wiring standard to enable all devices to use the same cabling for command and control.
Click to expand...


The way that I understand it is that the decoder is bluetooth enabled. I did not understand that a separate bluetooth chip was added to a DCC fitted loco. As regards the ethernet, well it may be a more secure way of transmitting data, but the problem with the ethernet is its lack of portability. Sort of like a battery powered automobile tethered to a AC household power point via a charging cable. Not very practical when it comes to portability.
 
To be other than (another) proprietary standard, they will have to make a Bluetooth receiver to enable you to retro-fit this to other decoders..
It is a Bluetooth front-end to get the control signal to the decoder electronics in the loco..
Ethernet is the transmission standard, how you implement the 'physical' link (even if it not physical) is up to you..
Most smartphones use wifi (hence Ethernet) when if the home, so in range of a wifi enabled device..

I do not see where the portability analogy comes in??
I presume you use domestic power for your railway? - So you are tied to a mains supply at, at least, one point.
If you have a 'wireless' system to transmit the DCC control information to a loco it does not (in theory) mean you have to have track power to said loco. You can build a handset /software dedicated to the job, or use a smartphone / tablet, and an app to generate the control information. These devices could be wired, or wireless. This is no less portable than an existing DCC setup, surely??
 
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