IP Engineering wheels and LGB pointwork

[ge_rik]

You may have seen from a couple of other threads that IP Engineering wheels are not compatible with LGB pointwork, particularly R1 points. Here's how I found a solution to the problem.

http://youtu.be/oI2ACndwMAQ

The main problem is that the profile of the flanges of the IP Engineering wheels is too fine, and hence the check rails don't guide the wheels through the frogs.

One solution (suggested by Mel) is to discard the IP Engineering wheels and replace them with, for example, Bachmann 24.5mm diameter metal wheels.

This I did successfully on my two IP Engineering Cattle Wagons (thanks Mel!)

although it did entail some surgery on the wagons as the wheel assemblies are wider than the IP Engineering wheelsets and hence the solebars had to be moved.

However, when it came to re-wheeling my Swift Sixteen corrugated van, I struggled. The axles are mounted inside brass tubes and I figured there was no way the Bachmann wheels could be mounted in the same way.

So, a re-think was needed. What if I could change the profile of the IP wheels, I thought.

I decided that if I could fix a 1.5mm thick plasticard disc behind each wheel, then maybe they would get through the pointwork unscathed. Firstly, squares of plasticard were superglued to the back of each wheel.

There were then roughly trimmed and finally 'turned' with a file and a drill.

The resulting 'disked' wheels now run a lot more reliably through LGB R1 points, even when in reverse-curve formation, as can be seen in the video.

The cattle wagons have Bachmann wheels while the black corrugated van has 'disked' wheels.

http://youtu.be/oI2ACndwMAQ

For more detail, see the posting on my blog - http://riksrailway.blogspot.co.uk/2012/08/how-i-made-ip-engineering-wheels.html < Link To http://riksrailway.blogsp...ngineering-wheels.html

Rik

 

[Gizzy]

A simple and very clever solution....

 

[yb281]

That's a great fix Rik.

I could resurrect all of my IP wheels now, but unfortunately they've been left out in the scrapyard and have accumulated about 1/2" of rust.

I will give the plasticard fix a try if I buy any more kits though. Thanks.

 

[RobB]

Hi,

All my kits are now sold with Accucraft wheels, they have been since last May

Rob
Swift Sixteen.

 

[pugwash]

Smart idea
Just out of interest, does there exist a suitable diameter and thickness of washer that would do the same? :thinking: Just thinking out loud, but surely between AF, BS, DIN and company there should be something that can be had off the shelf?

 

[ge_rik]

Hi,
All my kits are now sold with Accucraft wheels, they have been since last May
Rob
Swift Sixteen.

Thanks for the update, Rob. I did buy my van kit early on I must admit.

Rik

 

[ge_rik]

Had a thought overnight. The 'disked' wheels still drop into the frog - if an extra rim (say 1mm) was left on the plastic disc it should stop the wheel dropping into the frog as it passes through. I'll do some further experimentation today (weather permitting!) and let you know the outcome.

Rik
PS - the washers idea sounds really good - I assume they would be around 24mm diameter and approx 1.5mm thick - though could probably get away with anything between 1mm and 1.5mm thick.

 

[ge_rik]

Yes - as I suspected - leaving a rim of about 1mm around the edge of the flange stops the wheel from dropping into the frog.

Mind you, it is slightly more difficult to create the rim than to file it down to match the existing flange edge.

Rik

 

[MRail]

This effectively converts the 16mm standard wheel to G standard.

 

[Bram]

Damn good solution to the smooth running of our railways

 

[ge_rik]

Smart idea
Just out of interest, does there exist a suitable diameter and thickness of washer that would do the same? :thinking: Just thinking out loud, but surely between AF, BS, DIN and company there should be something that can be had off the shelf?

I tried it with some metal washers I came across in the garage (no idea what official size they are - but they were about right).

It does work - but the washers make the wheels a lot heavier and there's a bit more work involved in filing them to chamfer the rear edge. I think if you're prepared to put the work in it might be another option. For now I'm happy with the plasticard, but time will tell whether this is a long-term fix.

Rik

 

[Timbo]

I have come across this problem also with an IP wagon derailing on a specific LGB R3 RH point. The wagon consistently lifts one wheel as it passes across the point. I will swap the wheels as suggested.
The wagon passes all other R3 points without problem. I use no R1s as they produce even more crashes.
Thanks Rik for the tip.

 

[Rhinochugger]

Looking at that first picture, I would say that the problem is the back-to-back measurement.

On the 1:1 railway, the wheel flange does not keep the train on the track, but when you get to points, both the 1:1 and the model work in the same way.

The check rail, acting on the back of the flange, will only guide the other wheel through the frog if the back-to-back measurement is correct.

You can check it with callipers, a ruler or...................

The method that I use is to line the offending pair of wheels up with an LGB plastic wheelset ('cos I don't run plastic wheels) using the Mk 1 eyeball.

This method has worked for me over a variety of gauges over the years, but works easily with G Scale

 

[Melbournesparks]

Looking at that first picture, I would say that the problem is the back-to-back measurement.

On the 1:1 railway, the wheel flange does not keep the train on the track, but when you get to points, both the 1:1 and the model work in the same way.

The check rail, acting on the back of the flange, will only guide the other wheel through the frog if the back-to-back measurement is correct.

You can check it with callipers, a ruler or...................

The method that I use is to line the offending pair of wheels up with an LGB plastic wheelset ('cos I don't run plastic wheels) using the Mk 1 eyeball.

This method has worked for me over a variety of gauges over the years, but works easily with G Scale

Inclined to agree, I learned from building points that a consistent back to back measurement for all wheelsets is more important than a consistent gauge over the outside of the flanges. If you can push the IP wheels in a little on the axle it should work.

If the wheelset is dropping into the frog you could always shim the flangeway with a thin bit of brass or something. If you have a mix of different flange depths you might have to find a bit of a compromise, but if you bend the bit of brass to form a bit of a ramp at each end it's not too bad.

 

[Rhinochugger]

IMHO there is a bit too much emphasis on the question of 'fine scale' wheels.

In G scale (accepting the wide generality of the definition) the difference between coarse and fine only relates to the flange depth. Get the back-to-back right, and you've solved 99% of the problems.

There were some early Bachmann plastic wheelsets where the back-to-back was too narrow, and these used to ride up over the wing rails on the points - the best solution for these old wheelsets is either to use them as scenic detailing or put them in the bin

I've got rid of my last LGB point (R3) but I never had serious problems with the finer flanged wheels dropping into the flangeway - mind you, most of my wheelsets are over 30mm diameter, so that will make a difference, but loco pony trucks, and the odd wagon are on anything from 20mm to 25mm diameter. I also have two #6 radius points which, in theory, should have longer gaps at the frog, but I don't notice any undue rail riding problems.

I suppose bogie stock will always ride a bit smoother, as the bogie motion will take out a lot of irregularities, and I only indulged in some 4w Accucraft US wagons after I'd got rid of the LGB point. My 4w caboose rides on an old Aristocraft sprung chassis, so again, this will take out a lot of track irregularity.

My 0-6-0 diesel (currently out of commission) runs on fine flange wheels (Tenmille product) and was fairly comfortable through the LGB point - it was less comfortable on some of my rough track, but never to the point of derailment