I'm sure this must be a silly girly question.

It's just everything seems so illogical. First it worked on my bedroom floor. Then bringing it down stairs to my outside oval it continued to operate quite happily for several days.

Slowly it began to play-up but initially not seriously and I put it down to dirty track and fish-plates. Soon it was really miss-behaving but still nothing consistent. It was then it would only go in one direction.

Finally, the matter of it working upside down but not on my track became evident. I'm a fairly simple sole and I like to understand why things happen especially when there is no logic.

The only change I have made was to move my decoder which previously had hung in the drivers cab. I used some velcro to hide it on the cab ceiling. I can't think that caused the deterioration in performance so this morning after my chores I'm going to replicate what I had previously. I'm not hopeful, being a natural pessimist, but I have to try.

So onward and upwards.

Sarah Winfield
 
Sarah Winfield said:
It's just everything seems so illogical. First it worked on my bedroom floor. Then bringing it down stairs to my outside oval it continued to operate quite happily for several days.

Slowly it began to play-up but initially not seriously and I put it down to dirty track and fish-plates. Soon it was really miss-behaving but still nothing consistent. It was then it would only go in one direction.

Finally, the matter of it working upside down but not on my track became evident. I'm a fairly simple sole and I like to understand why things happen especially when there is no logic.

The only change I have made was to move my decoder which previously had hung in the drivers cab. I used some velcro to hide it on the cab ceiling. I can't think that caused the deterioration in performance so this morning after my chores I'm going to replicate what I had previously. I'm not hopeful, being a natural pessimist, but I have to try.

So onward and upwards.

Sarah Winfield
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Sarah, my mind is still going towards a bad contact or a bit of dirt inside :nod::nod:
 
Give everything a wiggle it just a little bit and set it up safely on it's side so the rods don't hit anything. Then try holding the power wires to the contacts then the wheels to see if you get consistent running.
 
Paradise said:
Give everything a wiggle it just a little bit and set it up safely on it's side so the rods don't hit anything. Then try holding the power wires to the contacts then the wheels to see if you get consistent running.
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I think that's what Sarah's saying - it works OK upside down on the bench, but stutters on the track - and she has now thoroughly cleaned the track.
 
Fred Mills said:
Dead fish in my pond usually float "Belly up"...and are easy to recognise...but...there seldom is that problem, unless the frost goes down over 3 feet, over Winter.
This year, there are lots of new offspring, so they must be rather healthy. Oh...bad me...this is not "The Pond Thread"....I must leave at once....!!
Fr.Fred
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Not too far out, chips were mentioned which last time I went to a Chippy went well with fish! But thread-drift apart one old loco going belly up is not the end of the world or even that loco which can and will probably be fixed eventually. Sarah, enjoy your other locomotives on nice Clean Tracck.
 
Sarah, moving the chip may have been the start, not that the position is an issue, but moving the chip could have caused either a wire to become loose, and when the loco is upside-down contact is remade, or there may a short, and again when upside-down the short is removed!
 
Gentlemen, you really are the most patient of forums. I think if it were me on the other side I would have given up on me long ago.

I could generally have sorted a problem on my other trains mainly because everything was accessible thus by a process of elimination the cause is isolated. But this has me baffled. It's the total randomness of the various issues that I find so frustrating.

Sarah Winfield
 
Sarah Winfield said:
Gentlemen, you really are the most patient of forums. I think if it were me on the other side I would have given up on me long ago.

I could generally have sorted a problem on my other trains mainly because everything was accessible thus by a process of elimination the cause is isolated. But this has me baffled. It's the total randomness of the various issues that I find so frustrating.

Sarah Winfield
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Sarah, part of the problem may be that you need to deal with it as a man would.......................

........................that is, put it on a shelf, ignore it for a few months and assume that it will fix itself :nod::nod::nod::nod:
 
Everything I am reading still points towards an (electrical) continuity problem. It may be many things however it is good practice to follow a process of elimination.

Are you able to run any of your other locos slowly and seamlessly around the track?
 
I think that the other thing to remember is that you have your track on a patio, now we have not had any rain for a while but dust and crud will bounce up onto the rail (causing lumpy running) meaning that regular track cleaning may be the order of the day prior to running. Now I know that others get weeks and months of running sans track cleaning but I find that never works for me. I always scrub my complete line prior to a running session, unless it has not rained since the last one. You see some of my track is laid on paving flags which which do tend to chuck up muck during rain.

Finally give your other loco's a run after track cleaning there is nothing that can be trashed by them running outside - trust me in this one please! The advice to leave the dodgy one on a shelf for a while is sound advice, a solution may appear like a local other G Scaler who can sort it for you.
 
Thank you for your continuing interest and help.

The answer the question posed by Slawman is "yes". I tried one of my other locomotives on the same lenght of track and it went fine hopefully ruling out a track issue.

It's the randomness of the problems with my old Stainz which makes sorting it out so difficult. If it was the same problem each time I'm sure I or anyone else could isolate it and maybe come up with a cure.

For example yesterday suddenly without warning the wheels sped along very fast. No physical reason that I could see, just took it into its head to run very quickly.

I don't want to give up on finding a solution and I think it's getting near the time when I box it up and send it to someone who might be able to make it better for me! It's just a nuisance now especially with my mentality when I just can't let it rest.

I'm hoping a member can see me soon and I get a professional opinion.

Sarah Winfield
 
Old decoders can go full speed at glitches in the signal... often it was caused by improper interpretation of the glitch as being DC and then taking the full DCC track voltage to play "speed racer"... for many years the "common thinking" was to disable DC mode in the decoder to prevent runaways. Many people still do this.

Greg
 
Greg Elmassian said:
Old decoders can go full speed at glitches in the signal... often it was caused by improper interpretation of the glitch as being DC and then taking the full DCC track voltage to play "speed racer"... for many years the "common thinking" was to disable DC mode in the decoder to prevent runaways. Many people still do this.

Greg
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Common problem if a 'Power-Buffer' is fitted, and analogue running is on..
Turn off track-power, and loco takes off like a scalded rabbit, until the caps. discharge.
 
Keep in mind Sarah that an electrical continuity problem may also be loco specific. This is the next step in the process of elimination after general track continuity has been eliminated (by good running of your other loco). I am assuming your other loco has a similar pickup configuration also as some of the larger locos with multiple skate pickups will run well on a track that will cause the Stainz a problem.

I have had my share of issues particularly with the older LGB locos (like your Stainz). So the problem may manifest regardless of the track state. Wheel contacts wear out and fail, pickup skates get cruddy and stop making good contact etc.... There are a few good youtube videos of Stainz disassembly, if you have any interest in exploring basic maintenance this could be a good opportunity to learn. As long as you are taking the loco in for service anyway you might as well pull it apart to see if you can find anything first. Worst case you take a box with a few bits in for service (should save you some $$ as the loco has already been disassembled:))
 
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Slawman said:
Keep in mind Sarah that an electrical continuity problem may also be loco specific. This is the next step in the process of elimination after general track continuity has been eliminated (by good running of your other loco). I am assuming your other loco has a similar pickup configuration also as some of the larger locos with multiple skate pickups will run well on a track that will cause the Stainz a problem.

I have had my share of issues particularly with the older LGB locos (like your Stainz). So the problem may manifest regardless of the track state. Wheel contacts wear out and fail, pickup skates get cruddy and stop making good contact etc.... There are a few good youtube videos of Stainz disassembly, if you have any interest in exploring basic maintenance this could be a good opportunity to learn. As long as you are taking the loco in for service anyway you might as well pull it apart to see if you can find anything first. Worst case you take a box with a few bits in for service (should save you some $$ as the loco has already been disassembled:))
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For that first time of disasembly, take pictures of each step on your camera if is a digi little cost to taking lits of pictures. Put all of the screws in a Container so that you do not loose them, a really good option is to use a Pen Box from 'Really useful boxes' available easily in the High Street. The lids have lots of separations ideal for separeting each of the small, parts and screws. Slightly larger bits can go in the base. image.jpgNote how I have separate sifferent types of screw etc in the lid. Or you can start from one place and put screws in going round the box putting them back in reverce direction on rebuild. Just do not drop or misplace the lid! Though for security you could put Coingfilm on the Too for moving things around if you take your time between starting and finishing the job. Oh and get a printout of the LGB Blow Up for the loco. Links section will show ehere to find these.
 
I think it would be better if I could just box it up and send it to someone to look at it for me I just dare not risk it even though at the moment it is worse than useless.

Thank you anyway.

Sarah Winfield
 
Intermittent failures are always difficult to troubleshoot. Your question was not silly, especially since it stemmed from the testing you were doing and the results you were seeing. Diagnostics is a matter of elimination by trying to isolate one variable at a time.

I would suggest two paths.

1. Test the electrical transfer to the loco.
2. Test the decoder.

1. To test the electrical transfer, you can turn the loco upside down and then place two wires from the DCC supply to three places (one place at a time using two wires)

a. the front wheels, one wire on the left, one on the right.
b. the rear wheels, one wire on the left, one on the right.
c. the sliding pick-ups, one wire on the left, one on the right.

You may want to have one person hold the wires while you operate the controls to see if you get consistence performance or if you can re-create the problem performance.

You could then do the same thing with the loco oriented right side up. Suspend it somehow so the wheels are not supporting the loco and can spin freely.

If you have the problem performance consistently across all six contact scenarios, then I would try swapping the decoder. If you have the problem only on the sliders, then I would investigate those further. If it is one a particular set of wheel, you have to look at the wheel contacts or the wiring from the contacts to the loco motor.

As JimmyB said, the sliders are affected by orientation and gravity. Gravity can alos cause a loos wire to make contact in one orientation vs another. The decoder is not affected by orientation in any way.

If you have the ability to video the tests or the current problem symptoms, you could do that and post it her using YouTube.

I am in the States and hence shipping the unit to me would be expensive. I'd be happy to look at it but suspect it is not worth the cost to ship it back and forth.
 
John, thank you for your comprehensive message. Looking at your advice I think I covered most of them, although I can't be sure, but either way, it will be on its way tomorrow to another forum member for help.

Please don't think me ungrateful I have been pleased to take suggestions, thoughts etc.etc. from other forum members but I think now is the time for someone with more knowledge and experience than have I.

Thanks.

Sarah Winfield
 
Yes, you are right I do infer another forum but I should have said "another member of this forum".

I now have to be patient and wait to learn what has been the problem and whether it can be fixed?

Sarah Winfield.
 
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