I Have A Problem With My Goose

G

Graham ASH

Fn3 Logging & Mining
Hi All,
Yesterday I had delivery of a Black & Red Box from Garden Railway Centres. Within that box is Goose No 2 - and a very lovely Goose it is. I bought it as second hand, but its in good condition. I havnt got back to the seller yet with the problem I have and thought I would ask you on here first.
Okay firstly this Goose is fitted with a Phoenix Sound Card, which is absolutely spot on, its loud and proud, secondly its also fitted with Battery, something Im not used to and something that was not in the brochure !!
I havnt a clue how Battery operated locos work and will probably remove it at a later date.
My problem is - I use Lenz for DCC and although I can get the sound working fine, I cannot get the loco to move at all, it sounds as though it wants to move but despite all the clanking, start up noises and everything else it wont budge. Now I guess its something simple, like the battery switch is in the wrong mode or whatever but has anyone any better clues. Its set on Number 3 and seems to respond to anything from the Controller except move - help please
Graham
 
Hi Graham,

Phoenix Sound Cards are just that, they are sound cards. To operate on DCC they need a motor decoder as well as the sound card.

My Goose No. 2 was fitted with a Pheonix Sound Decoder and a motor decoder by the (late) John at HobbyBahn (can't remember which make) but, to be honest, it's one of my worst performers. John said the wiring was quite bizarre and the front bogie kept shorting until John did a fix on that.
 
How big a battery are we talking about??
The Phoenix sound cards (mostly) come with a battery to keep things happening when on analogue, and you stop the engine.. It keeps the sound going long enough for it to shutdown prototypically. - Tends to look like a block of three AAA cells (ish)**

** depending on age and model. Some have (allegedly) a 9v battery, though I have only ever seen it referred to in the paperwork**

If you can post a picture of the guts, we can identify it for you.. I probably have a spare manual I can let you have.
PhilP.
 
I think your missing the point guys, its not the Sound card thats a problem, as I said earlier it works loud and proud, in other words great.
Its the fact that that the motor wont move at all when I use my lenz hand set to tell it to go.
As I said earlier its fitted with both sound and battery, and theres loads of switches on it, for instance:
there are five switches in a row down the side of the Goose, from top to bottom, they are:
Battery - On / Off
Battery / Track/ On / Off
Volume / updown and Speaker On /Off
Motor Off / On
And below all that is a fuse
The battey is about 1 1/2" sq, theres a Lenz Gold , plus a sound card and an orange Rx DSM2 at one end, apart from that theres the usual gubbins, motor etc, I will try to photo it tommorow
Like I said the sounds great , but although the sound starts up and runs, the motor doesnt run at all, I think maybe I have one of the switches set wrongly
Could it be that theres an on/off switch somewhere other than what I can see ?
Graham
 
My guess would be:
Battery Off
Battery/Track to Track (supposing this is a two position switch)
Motor On
The 'standard' Phoenix setup is a centre off biased toggle for volume. There may well be a 3.5mm jack socket for programming lurking somewhere..
I would guess the 'Speaker off' turns off power to the Phoenix??

This all supposes we are talking track-power DCC of course..
The fact you mention an 'orange RX DSM2' may well mean this is on-board battery powered.

I am probably not helping much, sorry!
 
Graham ASH said:
...... theres a Lenz Gold , plus a sound card and an orange Rx DSM2 ...
Click to expand...
Ah, that's the bit of info I think we were missing in your original post - there is a DCC motor decoder.
I'm not familiar with Phoenix sounds - are they controlled by DCC functions? Does the sound card receive DCC functions directly from the track or via the motor decoder functions?

What about lights - are they working - I assume they'd be powered from the Lenz Gold (Maxi?) ?

Stating the obvious, I take it the battery/track switch is set to track?
Maybe you need to reset the Lenz decoder, might be a speed step mismatch?
 
Hi Nick & Phil
Well I did say I used a Lenz in my first post !

Yes the sounds are controllable from my Lenz 100
The lights are working fine - all three - and the locos sound continues running for some time after switching off the power
Yes I have set the track switch to track
Why would I need to reset the decoder ? Surely it would have been working okay when sent ?
I think its something pretty simple = like a wrongly positioned switch the loco sounds as though it wants to move when I apply track power, and the sounds even increase - but it doesnt move- I wonder if theres some long delay on it - I will try again tommorow
Yes theres also an imput socket to charge the battery
Thanks for your help guys - its food for thought
Graham
 
First I would suggest you try to read the address CV with your Lenz system and that will tell you if the system actual "sees" the motor decoder. If it does, then at least you'll know what address it's set to (in case it's different than the sound decoder for some reason). If it doesn't "see" it, then that decoder may be wired through the r/c receiver/motor control somehow.
It's very odd, though, that there is a r/c receiver in there as well as a decoder. If you know anyone with a Spektrum r/c radio they could try to bind to the receiver and make it run on battery. I would be tempted to remove the r/c receiver & battery altogether and wire the decoder and Phoenix board as you would normally for DCC.
Keith
 
Graham,
The 3.5mm jack socket is for programming the Phoenix, NOT charging the battery..

You may well find that the 'loudspeaker off' switch kills power to the Phoenix, and the 'motor off' switch kills power to the Lenz.. This would allow either decoder to have CV's altered as necessary??

Cold light of day, and a quick poke-round with a meter, should get you on the right track!

Keep us posted, and enjoy!
PhilP.
 
Hi Keith
Yes its funny to me too, Im not exactly lost on this kind of thing but its baffling me.
Ive already checked the decoder address and at the moment its set to three, I think thats been reset by the sellers so that its easier to sell, with no hangups, my Lenz is certainly reading the decoder address as 3.
The RxDSM2 is I assume the r/c reciever ?
I will give it another go am, and see if I get anywhere, the sound is superb, failing that I will contact the seller and see if they can help, failing that I will do as you suggest and remove the RC and battery.
Is the removal an easy job, I no nothing at all about RC items !!
Graham
 
Graham ASH said:
... My problem is - I use Lenz for DCC ....
Click to expand...
Ah... I read that as you use a Lenz DCC system (ie. your Lenz 100), rather than you had a Lenz decoder in the loco.

Keith's suggestion of checking that you can read the motor decoder CVs is a good one. If it were me I'd be hooking up my SPROG / JMRI and storing all current CV settings as a baseline before beginning any fiddling. It may be that you have to switch out the sound board before attempting to read the motor decoder. Check the manufacturer id CV and make sure it's the Lenz Gold you're talking to.

Keith may be right, perhaps the motor decoder and sound have become set to different addresses somehow, although if the lights are responding to functions on the expected DCC address then that would seem to disprove it (assuming lights are driven by the motor decoder)? I'd also be inclined to disconnect all the R/C bits and just try a normal DCC configuration. On the other hand it could be a switch isolating the motor somewhere.
 
Hi Nick
Just got back from pub but Im ok,
Im using a Lenz 100 system and Ive also found what looks like a Lenz Gold Maxi onboard the Goose 2.
Now the sound isnt a problem its really good, almost the same as my Tsunami in the Shay, so no probs there.
It seems to me as though theres a connection fault, I can put the Goose on track and it starts up with the usual Goose sounds of an erratic Goose start up procedure, before setling into a nice steady gurglle. However when I then go to select a drive sequence I get the loco engaging gear sound, it revs up, but doesnt move. Now that to me sounds as though its waiting for something and the Goose simply wont move `either backwards or forwards.
Like I say I`ll have another look tommorow
Goodnite
Graham
 
Hi All again.
Since my last text I have been searching for ways to find out what Im doing wrong with my Goose No2 - Ive spoken to Andrew (very helpfull guy) at Garden Rail Centre and he reckons that it didnt have DCC in the Goose, however I can see a decoder on side of the Goose and it looks like a Lenz Silver 3 amps.
I can definately see the decoder, which means that this particular Goose is fitted with not only DC, and DCC but also battery which is R/c -
I have this am checked out the Goose on a test track, it runs as a loco should on O, but has no sound, but lights work. However when I switch it to 3 then I get all the sounds but cannot gain movement, even though I still get the headlights on.
I am contemplating taking out the battery and RC side of things - but will forestall for now
Any help anyone
Graham
 
Ah, the light s are on, but nobody home!
Bet there isn't a driver!!

Seriously..
I think, without us 'seeing' what's under the hood, we will be guessing quite a bit!
Not knowing your level of technical knowledge, you may well be better taking it to a meet, or your nearest 'guru' of the Dark Arts.

I would decide what you wish from the Goose, and then either work towards that yourself, or use it as a brief for whoever you get to sort it for you.

Not overly helpful, but a suggested route..
PhilP.
 
Are you sure it is a DCC decoder as Soundtrax made a specific Goose sound systems that worked on DCC and analogue but this only controlled sound and needed to work with a separate decoder for movement.
 
I think Phil's right - without us seeing some piccies of the innards to verify what's been fitted it's difficult to advise.

Personally I think it needs plonking on a programming track with something computer-based which can talk to whatever's installed and present the state of the CVs in a "user friendly" manner. I believe the free JMRI software (used with SPROG for example) can talk to the Lenz LZV100 of your Set 100.
 
The Goose No2 has a small pcb, could this be the one being confused with a decoder?
Last time I spoke to Andrew at 'Garden Railway centres' he told me that this very Goose was not DCC but DC track/battery.

I already have a No2 Goose and, I could be wrong, but I suspect that the Accucraft connection board might look like a Lenz DCC decoder in some way.
 
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