Help understanding ZIMO StEin units

[Airbuspilot]

I am working with a friend's G scale garden railway. The operating system comprises ZIMO MX 10 base station, MX 32 FU hand set, generally running with Roco Z 21 on iPad's. The MX 10 is connected by LAN to a laptop running iTrain. I have reached the point where I more or less understand iTrain and it is running on my small N scale layout. The main G scale storage area of 25 Trains is managed with iTrain route selection on a big screen. Our aim is to automate the external railway which is quite extensive today but growing.

I came into this group after much of the work was completed, unfortunately the "expert" left without leaving explanations of his design etc. I need to start wiring for current block detection which works very well on my own layout and is preferred by iTrain. I have discovered 3 ZIMO StEin units in the store cupboard which in theory should be capable of current detection however I cannot find a method of addressing them in a way that iTrain can understand. Usually ZIMO support is excellent but this time they are unable to help and the StEin documentation is certainly not helpful. Unfortunately the iTrain forum is not able to help.

On the ZIMO site there is an automation software program which presumably works with the StEin but I don't want to start learning a new software system. It looks like we may have to dispose of the 3 StEins as they seem to be useless for what we have today.

If anyone has knowledge of StEin units I would appreciate some advice regarding addressing the block detection ports.

Otherwise can anyone suggest a suitable alternative current sensor for G scale block detection, we are looking at 20 blocks in this phase.

Thanks

Robin

 

[dunnyrail]

Is the former ‘Expert’ not contactable?

 

[Airbuspilot]

Is the former ‘Expert’ not contactable?

Unfortunately not, I don't know the full story but I think there was a falling out

 

[dunnyrail]

Unfortunately not, I don't know the full story but I think there was a falling out

Oh that is a shame but sometimes that happens in groups and clubs, one of the reasons I got out of the club scene.

 

[idlemarvel]

I use LDT (Littfinski) current detectors, there are models that support S88 or Lenz RS. They support up to 5A in a block. But what works for you would depend on the ZIMO command station and iTrain combination. My Lenz command station acts as the consolidator of the DCC and sensor information and passes that to the computer. With other systems the computer consolidates the DCC and sensor information.

 

[Airbuspilot]

I use LDT (Littfinski) current detectors, there are models that support S88 or Lenz RS. They support up to 5A in a block. But what works for you would depend on the ZIMO command station and iTrain combination. My Lenz command station acts as the consolidator of the DCC and sensor information and passes that to the computer. With other systems the computer consolidates the DCC and sensor information.

Thanks Dave
My layout uses Digikeijs so no compatibility problems. I looked up the LDT detector but I think I will have both a connection and compatibility problem. The ZIMO MX10 connects via a CAN bus (not sure I know what that is) and I don’t think there is any other method of connection. I don’t think ZIMO provide information on compatibility with other manufacturers.
Robin

 

[idlemarvel]

Maybe you can connect the current detectors to the computer via USB or serial/USB rather than to the ZIMO. I'll take a look at the iTrain documentation later today. I think there is an iTrain user on here who uses current detection, maybe they will chip in.

 

[Airbuspilot]

Maybe you can connect the current detectors to the computer via USB or serial/USB rather than to the ZIMO. I'll take a look at the iTrain documentation later today. I think there is an iTrain user on here who uses current detection, maybe they will chip in.

i assumed the connection had to pass through the base station but if a USB connection direct to the computer is possible that would solve the problem. Thanks again.
Robin

 

[idlemarvel]

i assumed the connection had to pass through the base station but if a USB connection direct to the computer is possible that would solve the problem. Thanks again.
Robin

Correct. This threw me at first when I started with train automation. The PC can act as the "broker" between the DCC commands issued by the command station to control trains and accessories, and the sensor system so you don't have to use the same bus for both. CAN is a great bus technology but not many sensors support it. I had a quick look at the iTrain documentation and it looks like you could use LDT S88 but only via serial connection. If your PC does not have a serial connection (which is very unlikely these days) you can get serial to USB convertors for about £15. If you go down this route I can recommend a convertor. Other sensor technologies are supported by iTrain, see appendix D of the (large) iTrain manual.

 

[idlemarvel]

James ( J jimmielx ) is the chap I was thinking of but I haven't seen him on here for a bit. You could try to PM him.

 

[Airbuspilot]

Correct. This threw me at first when I started with train automation. The PC can act as the "broker" between the DCC commands issued by the command station to control trains and accessories, and the sensor system so you don't have to use the same bus for both. CAN is a great bus technology but not many sensors support it. I had a quick look at the iTrain documentation and it looks like you could use LDT S88 but only via serial connection. If your PC does not have a serial connection (which is very unlikely these days) you can get serial to USB convertors for about £15. If you go down this route I can recommend a convertor. Other sensor technologies are supported by iTrain, see appendix D of the (large) iTrain manual.

It’s a crazy situation, iTrain connects to the ZIMO MX10 and I can control Locos and accessory decoders with iTrain via the computer. The ZIMO MX 32 handset can see the StEin blocks, my problem is associating say Block 5 with the StEin output no 5. If understand correctly the method of addressing the StEin requires an ID (presumably the StEin unit) and a port. My problem is how to do it, so far no one can tell me how it works including ZIMO support.

I will look at the computer tomorrow, it’s not very new so could have a serial connection. The LDT website seems to be corrupted, Chrome wont let me view but I will look at the LDT S88 somehow.

Robin

 

[idlemarvel]

If the ZIMO can see the StEin sensors is your problem then how to define those as block sensors in iTrain to link them to a specific block? If so you would be better talking to iTrain support. You mentioned you had tried the forums but I assume there is actual support for ITrain as it is a licenced product.

BTW the problem with the LDT site is that their HTTPS certificate has expired, you just have to tell Chrome to proceed regardless.

https://www.ldt-infocenter.com/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=en:ldt-infocenter

 

[Airbuspilot]

If the ZIMO can see the StEin sensors is your problem then how to define those as block sensors in iTrain to link them to a specific block? If so you would be better talking to iTrain support.

That is exactly the problem. I have posted on iTrain support who cannot help either, as no-one was using StEin there was no interest in developing iTrain support for the StEin. iTrain can recognise the MX10 but I cannot link to the StEin.

As a result I posted on this site and the ZIMO users forum, as I hit a dead end every where else, in the hope someone would have experience of these units.

Robin

 

[idlemarvel]

If iTrain say they don't support ZIMO StEin sensors then I would have thought that was the end of it unless, as you are hoping, someone on here has found a workaround, but that seems unlikely given the rather particular (as in unique) nature of the ZIMO solution. BTW I don't think JMRI or Rocrail support it either. iTrain supports many other sensor systems, but as you say the challenge is to find one that supports G scale voltage/current. The only one I know and understand is LDT but there may be others. However many of them will be integrated into the command station or be proprietary, e.g. Maerklin CS2/3 or Massoth. If you are wedded to iTrain and ZIMO your options may be limited.

 

[Greg Elmassian]

I see you posted on my Zimo forum, I know Kristine will have some help for you. the StEin module is fairly new and growing in features. Not many Zimo people here, unfortunately.

Greg

 

[Airbuspilot]

I see you posted on my Zimo forum, I know Kristine will have some help for you. the StEin module is fairly new and growing in features. Not many Zimo people here, unfortunately.

Greg

Hi Greg. Kristine gave me a comprehensive answer, basically only ZIMO can communicate with the StEin. Is it acceptable to post reply here for anyone interested?

 

[Greg Elmassian]

Sure, the Zimo forum exists to help people and share knowledge.

 

[Airbuspilot]

Thanks Greg

For anyone who might Be interested this is the answer from Kristine on the ZIMO users forum :-

Kristine
Mar 5 #8253

The StEin module is a cool product, however it’s basically proprietary, you can upload an XML command structure directly to the module, or control it directly using a MX32 when tethered, which also provided feedback. The only software that interfaces with the module is STP.

Conceptually, the StEin module took Zimo’s original track modules such as the MX7, 9 etc. and combined them making a single module, that could be operated standalone without a computer, using XML formatted command structures. It expands upon Zimo’s HLU command structure.

In theory the Zimo App is supposed to provide the expanded command structure that the MX32 offered.

With regards to the Roco app and third party software such as I-train, TrainController, JMRI – this software doesn’t support direct communication to Zimo thus support for track modules such as the StEin and or other modules such as the MX9 are not supported by those software.

Basically Zimo uses an expanded command structure, which was slimmed down with the addition of adapting the Roco, this enabled the use of the Roco App while enabling the ability for software to use the Roco protocol over IP to work with Zimo..

And sadly, with those advancements, and changes of direction the StEin module had development placed on a back burner, this happened around late 2019.

There is a limited support for it, there was some talk late last year about the possibility of an American champion, but a lot of that was lost due to delivery problems from Zimo