Help needed with power

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Greyfox

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When using Massoth handset with WiFi unit I have some trains lose power and jerk around some parts of track .lgb and Mth but Bachman seems ok .i have to move train to different bit of track and some loose power in the tunnel and Some don’t
 
Gizzy

Gizzy

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Possibly dirty track in your tunnels....
 
Greg Elmassian

Greg Elmassian

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Yes, I don't see how the WiFi would affect it, you might lose comms with the central station (NMRA command station), but that should not affect what is sent on the rails.

Could be dirty track, and a difference in "keepalive" duration between decoders.

Greg
 
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idlemarvel

idlemarvel

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If some locos are losing power and some aren't it may be the quality and quantity of power pickups. Clean wheels and make sure brushes aren't worn out. Once you have cleaned track and loco then you can start some more specific detective work.
 
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Greyfox

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Yes, I don't see how the WiFi would affect it, you might lose comms with the central station (NMRA command station), but that should not affect what is sent on the rails.

Could be dirty track, and a difference in "keepalive" duration between decoders.

Greg
HI THANKS WILL CLEAN TRACK BUT I THINK WHEN THE TRAIN IS OUTOF SIGHT IN TUNNEL MADE OF WOOD IT MAYBE LOSES SIGNAL
 
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Greyfox

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If some locos are losing power and some aren't it may be the quality and quantity of power pickups. Clean wheels and make sure brushes aren't worn out. Once you have cleaned track and loco then you can start some more specific detective work.
THANKS
 
Gizzy

Gizzy

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HI THANKS WILL CLEAN TRACK BUT I THINK WHEN THE TRAIN IS OUTOF SIGHT IN TUNNEL MADE OF WOOD IT MAYBE LOSES SIGNAL
The signal to the loco comes from the track if you are using Massoth DCC, hence my suggestion that the track needs cleaning in the tunnel.

Your hand set communicates with wireless to the 1200Z Central Station, so that is not the problem from what information you have given.

I guess some of your locos have extra pick ups (skates) so these might work better in the tunnel than the locos which rely on just the wheels for power....
 
Greg Elmassian

Greg Elmassian

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And that is one of the benefits of DCC track power, in that tunnels won't affect the signal. All you need to do is have your throttle reach your "command station"... also in most cases, until commanded otherwise, DCC systems put the "loco yy, go to speed xx" commands out for all locos in a round robin fashion.... so your throttle is not continuously sending the speed command, just when you change it... I would think you could prove this to yourself if you turn off your throttle while the train is running, but different systems do this differently...

Greg
 
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Paul M

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Wood shouldn't block a signal, unless you've a metal former inside it
 
Greg Elmassian

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The wireless unit transmits to the command station, not the loco, the command station puts the signal on the rails.

The mountain could be made out of sheet steel and it would not make any difference.... the loco picks up the signal from the rails.

....... :banghead:
 
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Paul M

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The wireless unit transmits to the command station, not the loco, the command station puts the signal on the rails.

The mountain could be made out of sheet steel and it would not make any difference.... the loco picks up the signal from the rails.

....... :banghead:
[/QUOT
I'm not saying that at all. I said wood shouldn't stop a signal. Relevant if the locomotive was radio controlled, battery powered, as smell of the folks use
 
Greg Elmassian

Greg Elmassian

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Really not relevant, since the question asked is about train in tunnel, not the OP inside the tunnel! :giggle:

(Something being true does not automatically also qualify as relevant.)

I responded since the comment furthers the misconception above that you are trying to get radio waves from the throttle to the loco in the tunnel. Not true at all.

Since there is already this misunderstanding, it just takes us further away from solving what the OP's problem is.

Greg
 
dunnyrail

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HI THANKS WILL CLEAN TRACK BUT I THINK WHEN THE TRAIN IS OUTOF SIGHT IN TUNNEL MADE OF WOOD IT MAYBE LOSES SIGNAL
When we are talking about Signal are we talking Radio range from the hand held controller? If so Massoth make a range extender for their RC, easy to fit and made all the difference to my setup when installed. I found that almost any building could effect the original RC setup.

 
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idlemarvel

idlemarvel

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Useful info JonD but I think we have established it is not the radio signal from hand held throttle to command station that is at issue, it is loss of power to the loco, ref post #1. Admittedly it is not entirely clear from the OP description, but let's wait for them to clean the track and check the pickups to see if that fixes the problem.
 
JimmyB

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My understanding of DCC is limited, but, if for instance, the Central Station (CS) is inside a building, and signal was lost between the CS and the Tx as the OP moved around, my assumption as the signal to the track (and ultimately the loco) from the CS would remain unchanged, and ergo the loco running would remain unchanged.
I am sure if this is wrong some kind person will put me right.
 
idlemarvel

idlemarvel

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You are correct, the loco will keep moving with whatever speed and direction was last sent to its decoder though the track DCC signal. Most (all?) command stations resend the last speed and direction commands at regular intervals.
 
PhilP

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If this is 'classic' DCC, then it is a "power-to-loco" problem..

1.TRACK:
1. Power-feeds?
2. Clean track?
3. Joint problems?

2. LOCO:
1. Skate stuck 'up'?
2. Wheel-treads (tyres) dirty?
3. Back of wheels dirty / carbon brushes worn?
4. Lack of continuity down each side of loco? - ALL wheels and skates connected??
5. (less likely) busbars etc. in motor block contaminated with oil/grease, so insulating?
6. (really unlikely) intermittent wiring fault / intermittent decoder problem?

IF the OP is using a wireless DCC product, then yes, there may be a wireless-range / reception problem.

So, question to OP:
Exactly what system are you using? - Model numbers if possible, please? - Thank you. :)
 
Greg Elmassian

Greg Elmassian

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Add under track:
4. noise in signal caused by feed wire length, wiring issues. In the US, long dead-ends can require "snubbers" (a filter to eliminate reflections at dead ends that can corrupt the signal) - this is not as rare as people think.

Clarification: Phil uses the term "wireless DCC", very confusing and ambiguous, and in light of confusion above, I would suggest "traditional DCC system with wireless thottes", or a "DCC derivative that broadcasts directly from throttle to loco"

This comment may open more boxes than shut them, but the OP does indeed specify the brand of the system, which does NOT do direct transmission from the throttle to the loco, so unless either the OP is inside the tunnel himself, or has put the Massoth command station in the tunnel and it is made of metal, this is not the problem.

Greg

p.s. strictly speaking the DCC specification mandates track power and signals over the rails, so you could actually claim the other variations are not technically DCC.
 
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Greyfox

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G

Greyfox

Registered
28 Jun 2019
47
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67
Farnham
If this is 'classic' DCC, then it is a "power-to-loco" problem..

1.TRACK:
1. Power-feeds?
2. Clean track?
3. Joint problems?

2. LOCO:
1. Skate stuck 'up'?
2. Wheel-treads (tyres) dirty?
3. Back of wheels dirty / carbon brushes worn?
4. Lack of continuity down each side of loco? - ALL wheels and skates connected??
5. (less likely) busbars etc. in motor block contaminated with oil/grease, so insulating?
6. (really unlikely) intermittent wiring fault / intermittent decoder problem?

IF the OP is using a wireless DCC product, then yes, there may be a wireless-range / reception problem.

So, question to OP:
Exactly what system are you using? - Model numbers if possible, please? - Thank you. :)
Hi I am using massoth 8136501 DiMAX 1210Z Central Station – Massoth Elektronik GmbH. And Rc Navigator massoth also of all my loco the Bachman steam engine is not affected.but the LGB loco 4/4 is and so is mth diesel
also LGB maintenance loco .i want to apply lube to fish plates but can’t find any where that sells it can you help thanks Paul