Gas tank testing
- Thread starter hornbeam
- Start date
bobg
Registered
I would suggest that any pressurised tank is similar to a boiler, and therefore the best way to test it is fill it with a safe liquid, i.e. water, and pressurise to twice it's working pressure with more of the same, applied carefully and slowly. It does require an accurate gauge.
If it should rupture, all you get is a 'splodge' and wet feet (if your too slow).
If it should rupture, all you get is a 'splodge' and wet feet (if your too slow).
steveciambrone
trains, boats, planes
If it is a commercially manufacured tank from the usual trusted vendors Roundhouse, Accucraft, and etc. then I would not bother. Especially If it arrived in excellent or new condition.
Steve
Steve
ROSS said:
Not sure what recommended test pressure is for gas tanks, but I do know that it is a lot more than for a boiler. So 300 psi may not be far off the mark for safety. Both propane and butane gas get to quite high pressures when hot and we are in a warm environment with these.
The Sugestion of using an Engineering Society or 16mm meeting is a good one. I used to do boiler testing at the Beds Group and at that time we were not set up for Gas Tank testing. However all that is needed is a small turned and threaded set up for a specific item to be tested and your local 16 mm group may be happy to oblige. We used to make a very modest charge for the testing service that covered the cost of the Engineering Bodies Certificate that we used to issue. Can't remember the cost but it was less than £5.00, a small price to pay for peace of mind.
JonD
New Haven Neil 2
An old git boiling water for fun
Here we go again.
Here's the vapour curve for Propane (worst case scenario) you can see at 30c the pressure is IRO 10 bars, 150 psi - therefore 300 psi is twice a reasonably expected working pressure.
Here's the vapour curve for Propane (worst case scenario) you can see at 30c the pressure is IRO 10 bars, 150 psi - therefore 300 psi is twice a reasonably expected working pressure.
New Haven Neil 2
An old git boiling water for fun
Indeed, Doug!
50c gives 20 Bars, (approx 300psi) and 50c gas tank temp isn't inconceivable with an enclosed tank on hot day (remember those?), so again, a good figure to test to!
Good comment about how often our small boilers are tested Ross, and I'm sure you know what the answer is!
50c gives 20 Bars, (approx 300psi) and 50c gas tank temp isn't inconceivable with an enclosed tank on hot day (remember those?), so again, a good figure to test to!
Good comment about how often our small boilers are tested Ross, and I'm sure you know what the answer is!
New Haven Neil 2
An old git boiling water for fun
eeeek!
dunnyrail said:
I would be very surprised if ANY of the 16mm Association test kits are in date (I have one here and the gauges need to be checked or replaced annually) ? and none of them will be suitable for undertaking a gas tank test because they don't have the fittings. If the tank is a Roundhouse or Accucraft one and in standard condition i would be inclined not to bother. These tanks are massively over engineered.
2bar/litre. These consumer items as supplied in 16mm/G/G1 sizes legally conform to the SEP (Safe Engineering Practice) component of the EEC Pressure Vessel Regulation, come with a manufacturers cert and do not need to be tested unless they suffer damage. There is a huge amount of fuss and bullshine about boiler testing ? and for the majority of us it is neither a legal or safety requirement. It is interesting to note that the boiler testing fanatics once noisy in the 16mm Assoc went all quiet when asked about gas tank testing because there were no facilities for doing so. Again these little boilers are hugely over engineered and while I have seen an old brass boiler fail, and 'fail' is exactly what it did ? they will not 'blow up'. it developed a pinhole inside the smokebox at the hottest and narrowest part between firetube and wrapper. This was only noticed when performance fell off a bit. I have seen a boiler tested to destruction and after well over 400psi this roundhouse boiler failed. By this time it actually looked like an orange in terms of shape ? so if your boiler begins to look like an orange ? then turn the gas offROSS said:
.Finally I would make the point that your electric shower at home contains a flash boiler, is surrounded by some 10 killowatts of electrickery and it seems people are quite happy to stand, borrock naked, beneath a flow of water from this contrivance. When did you last have this tested? And when did you last worry about it? Same goes for your commercial gas tank. The standard gas tanks from Roundhouse & Accucraft fall within the same section of the legislation as the boilers. While the pressure can be much higher, the container size is much smaller and so it falls within the bar/litre limit. These things are SAFE when used either according to the instructions or according to commonsense. You can come to more harm on the golf course ? or even in the bar at the 19th hole...
The things that SHOULD be checked are the boiler fittings such as safety valve or pressure gauge. They need to be kept clean (ie use distilled water) and just generally kept an eye on. Again, just follow the instructions with the locomotives
stockers
Trains, aircraft, models, walking, beer, travel
bobg said:
Who is probably following the requirements of the clubs insurer rather than the letter of the law.
In these days of 'Safety Assessments', it is conceivable that one might be considered to be negligent if one tests most boilers but ignores others because the're small. If an injury occured, then it wasn't too small was it.
stockers said:
It depends on the rules of the particular club more than the insurer. To illustrate this let me tell you that to run a narrow gauge 16mm loco at the South Hams Garden Railway layout at Buckfastleigh station, you need to pay your daily fee (two quid to cover insurance) and be a member of the 16mm Association. You do NOT need a boiler certificate because the loco complies with SEP of EEC regs. To run an SEP certificated G1 locomotive at the same site and on the same garden railway, you need to pay yer two squid, be a member of G1MRA AND have a boiler certificate from either a model engineering club or G1MRA itself. The insurance co in all cases is Walker Midgely. The only difference is that the G1 Assoc require a spurious extra boiler certificate, so the insurer shrugs and goes by their rules. The insurance co do not require another certificate for the same size boilers in 16mm. They are perfectly happy with the safety of commercial boilers and it is down to the sort of fuss-arse rule-makers of the sort that exist in every club and who need to be frapped down. These people are rarely engineering experts ? merely those who seek to pull the ladder up after them and to be exclusive rather than inclusive.
I fought to stop this happening in the 16mm Association ? after all, one does not need to be a member of a society or association to run perfectly legal small steam locomotives does one? All these useless rules do is to exclude people.
In all cases you will need a certificate if you build your own boiler and gas tank of course.
Re Tag's post no. 19, I must take issue wiht the calibration point. We used to get the Bedfordshire Kit recaliberated every year, wish I could remember where now but I stopped doing the Testing Round 12 or so years ago now so my memory of exactly where it use to go is gone.
Also one of the guys in the club could turn up any fitting so that we could test differing locomotives, would have been no issue to test a Gas Tank provided we had prior request. That was then, but I still think that a club ought to be able to assist. Remember we are talking about a second hand tank of unknown history here. Talk about a Hornets nest!
In fact I well remember testing a 3 inch gauge 9F with the Beds Group kit.
JonD
Also one of the guys in the club could turn up any fitting so that we could test differing locomotives, would have been no issue to test a Gas Tank provided we had prior request. That was then, but I still think that a club ought to be able to assist. Remember we are talking about a second hand tank of unknown history here. Talk about a Hornets nest!
In fact I well remember testing a 3 inch gauge 9F with the Beds Group kit.
JonD