Gandy Dancer: double worm-gear motor

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ThomasDadDurham

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I had a Bachmann Christmas Gandy Dancer that ran (with a great deal of noise) last year. This year it stopped and on breaking it down to clean and test, the motor is completely gone. It just smokes if powered. All the threads I've searched here and elsewhere concern the 'rubber band drive' type. Mine is a double-worm-gear type. There must be somewhere I can get a motor of this size or type, OR even just roughly the same size that doesnt get in the way of the motion gears, and I can rebuild the holder with plasticard.

The Bachmann parts site and all other parts sites are of course, useless, as there's no information on size at all. The interior of the Gandy Dancer is pretty tight so I need something close if not identical. Anyone seen any other motors anywhere that are this sort of size and double ended?

I'm debating making the entire thing battery powered, but first I need to get a motor I can fit in there.

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Although they are pretty rubbish at it these days. - IMHO, obviously..

Have you contacted Bachmann Europe?

Telephone 01455 245 575 ; Email service@bachmann-europe.co.uk

There webby-site is undergoing maintenance, so a call will presently be less frustrating.

PhilP
 
ThomasDadDurham said:
I had a Bachmann Christmas Gandy Dancer that ran (with a great deal of noise) last year. This year it stopped and on breaking it down to clean and test, the motor is completely gone. It just smokes if powered. All the threads I've searched here and elsewhere concern the 'rubber band drive' type. Mine is a double-worm-gear type. There must be somewhere I can get a motor of this size or type, OR even just roughly the same size that doesnt get in the way of the motion gears, and I can rebuild the holder with plasticard.

The Bachmann parts site and all other parts sites are of course, useless, as there's no information on size at all. The interior of the Gandy Dancer is pretty tight so I need something close if not identical. Anyone seen any other motors anywhere that are this sort of size and double ended?

I'm debating making the entire thing battery powered, but first I need to get a motor I can fit in there.

View attachment 335774View attachment 335775View attachment 335776View attachment 335777
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That looks very much like the sort of motor you'd get in an 00/H0 loco - 5 pole skew-wound.

You can get miniature gear pullers (on Amazon and other sites) albeit of dubious quality, but I have successfully pulled a few worm gears off. Measure the diameter of the shaft, and see if you can locate a 12v motor of suitable dimensions - you may have to be a bit persistent with the internet searching
 
HO loco motor is the right length and width but is 18mm thick against your 12mm.
This thing is corroded and axles don't move. Sorry but don't remember what it was out of. Not used HO in decades.
 

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Rhinochugger said:
That looks very much like the sort of motor you'd get in an 00/H0 loco - 5 pole skew-wound.

You can get miniature gear pullers (on Amazon and other sites) albeit of dubious quality, but I have successfully pulled a few worm gears off. Measure the diameter of the shaft, and see if you can locate a 12v motor of suitable dimensions - you may have to be a bit persistent with the internet searching
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It absolutely is the one they use in HO locos, which google image searches confirmed, but Bachmanns parts website is terrible. I'd need to trawl through 700+ search results. They wont even advise either.
I think I'm going to have to email all the UK repairs and parts dealers. Good call on the gear puller, I'll have to get one.
 
ThomasDadDurham said:
It absolutely is the one they use in HO locos, which google image searches confirmed, but Bachmanns parts website is terrible. I'd need to trawl through 700+ search results. They wont even advise either.
I think I'm going to have to email all the UK repairs and parts dealers. Good call on the gear puller, I'll have to get one.
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Have a little trawl through evilbay - I've bought the odd motor from there, even if it comes from China. It's sometimes hard work finding the dimensions, but you might pick a winner.

Shaft diameter is the biggie, and there are shafts (and gears) commonly sized at 2mm and 2.3mm (among others) the tricky bit being defining the difference. I resorted to an old, imperial caliper gauge - there was some discussion on here, but I think it was in the coffee shop rather than a dedicated thread.
 
Chuck Hanson said:
In the third pic it looks like the carbon brush that the black wire goes to is gone? Can you open the holder and remove the brushes or is it a sealed unit?
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Well spotted - I'm not sure how easy it would be to get the motor back together :oops: It appears to rely on bending the metal parts over - usually something that works once only :mm:

Years ago, a friend of my father's spent a whole evening fashioning a carbon brush for one of my N gauge locos out of a piece of pencil lead, with ultimate, resounding success.
 
Chuck Hanson said:
In the third pic it looks like the carbon brush that the black wire goes to is gone?
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First pic too, now I know what to look for!

Yes, that is undoubtedly a 'standard' bachmann motor, probably used in an HO/OO diesel. I've done a similar swap with a Kader motor in the Bachmann tram.

In my experience, those brass brush holders are just a push fit in the nylon end frame/bracket. Try getting a slim screwdriver under the head or the brass that the wire is soldered to, and try a little leverage. You can also try a big screwdriver between the commutator and the brush holder inside the motor, but you can do more damage that way if you aren't careful.

You can fettle a brush from any carbon wheel pickup - the ones used on Aristo or USAT coaches tend to be bigger, but they are soft.

Incidentally, if you want to test all this, apply power to the 2 motor leads, and stick a screwdriver in the gap between the brush holder and the commutator, not touching anything else. It will act as a crude brush and the motor should try to spin. Don't do it for long!
 
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I am going thru the same drill with a friends Bachmann Hand Car. I found a 5 pack of this motor on AliExpress (which I just found out they only sell them in a 10 pack now, about $2 US each with shipping). The shaft matches Bachmann 1.5mm diameter and hopefully is long enough for a stable mount and with enough power. I used a 25 year old slot car gear puller to remove the gear. More later.

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After a LOT of fiddling, I got the cheap Mitsumi motor to function with the old, tired Bachmann Rube Goldberg drive train. It runs best at Lionel (flat out) speed. It is jerky at a simulated 'people pumper' speed. Hopefully, the gears will adapt to their new circumstance and smooth out - or they might finally shuck teeth and go back to shelf display mode. Proof of my patience, if not skill, HERE:


 
Hi, I've tried batteryfying my Bachman gandy dancer (with some difficulty, I might add). The battery pack is 8 AAA NiMh but only lasts a couple of circuits of the garden. I think maybe it needs 10 AAA's. The battery pack is located in the trolley along with the Fosworks speed controller & charging circuit. These were all squeezed into a 'tool' box. Hiding the wires & controls was awkward (as you can see from the photo!).DSC_0047.JPG
 
HobbitFertang said:
Hi, I've tried batteryfying my Bachman gandy dancer (with some difficulty, I might add). The battery pack is 8 AAA NiMh but only lasts a couple of circuits of the garden. I think maybe it needs 10 AAA's. The battery pack is located in the trolley along with the Fosworks speed controller & charging circuit. These were all squeezed into a 'tool' box. Hiding the wires & controls was awkward (as you can see from the photo!).View attachment 337682
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Many many moons ago I batterified mine with a 9v replaceable Alkaline battery, much easier to hide with a DPDT switch and managed all the wiring below. Speed was very suitably slow and endurance pretty good, but in the end the motor gave up the ghost and that was that. The trailer now acts as a PW trolley with LGB compatible coupling arrangement to be occasionally added to the rear of a train and left somewhere out on the line for PW duties. The bit with the blokes on sans blokes sits in a scrap yard whilst the blokes have been adapted as LocomCrew.
 
Increasing the number of cells, will up the voltage (and hence top speed) but will not increase the run-time..

You need larger capacity (amp-hour) cells.
If you are happy with the speed, then changing from AAA to AA cells, will make a big difference to the run-time.

For the biggest capacity, you would need to change battery chemistry.
A '2S' Lithium-based pack would give an even greater run-time.

PhilP.
 
PhilP said:
Increasing the number of cells, will up the voltage (and hence top speed) but will not increase the run-time..

You need larger capacity (amp-hour) cells.
If you are happy with the speed, then changing from AAA to AA cells, will make a big difference to the run-time.

For the biggest capacity, you would need to change battery chemistry.
A '2S' Lithium-based pack would give an even greater run-time.

PhilP.
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Agreed, but bearing in mind the fragility of this offering running at G scale track voltage whatever that may be 12v plus can certainly cause break down. I have seen these poor things racing round tracks much like a Stainz on full power - not good. Hence when I did my conversion I used a guaranteed lower voltage option that met my needs.

Similar issues can apply with smaller scales where Internet chat lambasts the 00 Hornby offering after trashed purchases of Locomotion No.1, a well known reviewer on Ebay had the thing running at full chat on a rolling road likely leading to many running at inappropriate speeds. It is often reported that when George Stephenson drove it on the opening the S&D Railway it achieved a speed of 12 MPH, then likely the near top speed of a galloping horse.

I think a similar circumstance of slow speed would be better for the Bachman offering.
 
If not fast enough, then increase the cell-count..
For a greater run-time, you need a bigger 'bucket' to hold the energy..

PhilP
 
HobbitFertang said:
Hi, I've tried batteryfying my Bachman gandy dancer (with some difficulty, I might add). The battery pack is 8 AAA NiMh but only lasts a couple of circuits of the garden. I think maybe it needs 10 AAA's. The battery pack is located in the trolley along with the Fosworks speed controller & charging circuit. These were all squeezed into a 'tool' box. Hiding the wires & controls was awkward (as you can see from the photo!).View attachment 337682
Click to expand...
As Philp has said, 8 NiMh cells will give you 9.6v which ought to be enough, but with AAA the most you're going to get is 930 mAh with Eneloop pro, which are not cheap cells (Eneloop are LSD - Low Self Discharge - technology).

6 x AA might give you better run time :think::think:
 
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