Fully Automatic Control with Massoth System

[Diesel2000]

Hi All,

I've had my garden railroad set up for a couple of years now and am looking to set up a fully automated control system, with the ability to run trains manually as well. My layout can support up to 4 trains running simultaneously, but thats really difficult to control with Massoth navigators. Ideally I want to have 2-3 running with computer control and be in control of one to make it more interesting.

I have a Massoth 1210z and am in the process of setting up feedback modules and track contacts. I went this route because rewiring for current detection would be a really difficult task and has drawbacks from the reed contact setup. I first need to replace all the switch decoders to free up the wiring I ran to 4 channel decoders and convert that over to track contacts and feedback modules. Thats going to take a few months.

In the meantime I'm curious what software folks who have done something similar are using. iTrain, RocRail, and Stellwerk are all ones I've researched. iTrain probably has the most documentation out there and what I'm leaning towards. Setting up any of these apps successfully for fully automated control isnt non-trivial so I want to square a few things away first.

I have discovered that the Massoth USB interface implementation in iTrain is not entirely stable and can cause issues. The solution has been to use the RS232 interface with serial-USB adapter. The 1210z does not have RS232 like the 1200z and 800z CS do and only has USB.

Is anyone using iTrain with a 1210z and can confirm if the Navigators have been locked out from manual control when using the program? I've asked on the iTrain forum but didnt get a complete answer and wont be able to try out for a while. I will have to set up a simple layout in order to test this out and was hoping someone might be able to confirm first.

If thats the case are others using either RocRail or Stellwerk more in line with what I'm trying to achieve with the Massoth system?

 

[jimmielx]

I’ve been using iTrain for about ten years and am very happy with it. I run completely automatic.

However I’m using a Lenz system so can’t comment on the Massoth interface.

Happy to try to answer any questions about the software though!

 

[muns]

the 1210Z originally has a serial interface, then both and now only a usb interface. It behaves like a serial port to the computer. You just need to ensure you use the correct drivers.

 

[Diesel2000]

the 1210Z originally has a serial interface, then both and now only a usb interface. It behaves like a serial port to the computer. You just need to ensure you use the correct drivers.

Thanks! I’m in the process of setting up a simple layout in order to test everything out and get familiar with iTrain.

 

[John Russo]

I use Stellwerks.

Start_de

Easy to use interface. The guy that wrote it id the original LGB MTS software.

Only drawback now is he is retiring and so he is unable to provide future updates. I am hoping to keep using for a few years.

 

[Diesel2000]

Does anyone know what the Massoth feedback module setting is to have the track contacts send both a and b signals (closed and open) on the same address?

 

[John Russo]

Are you referring to the 280R (8170001) ?

If so, here is the manual: https://www.allaboutlgb.com/pdfs/Massoth%20DiMAX%20Feedback%20Module%20User's%20Manual.pdf

Page 7 speaks to Flank and Level control which sounds like what you are trying to do.

The settings are shown on Page 18 (Attachment 2)

If I am off the mark, forgive me.

 

[Diesel2000]

Are you referring to the 280R (8170001) ?

If so, here is the manual: https://www.allaboutlgb.com/pdfs/Massoth%20DiMAX%20Feedback%20Module%20User's%20Manual.pdf

Page 7 speaks to Flank and Level control which sounds like what you are trying to do.

The settings are shown on Page 18 (Attachment 2)

If I am off the mark, forgive me.

Yes, the manual doesn’t specifically state how to configure this. So far in my testing flank control does not provide the necessary release of the feedback and blocks. I’m not sure how with level control it will work if the open signal is on a different address. That’s what I’m trying to work out.

 

[Loco]

I am in the process of setting up Rocrail with Massoth 280R feedback modules for both Massoth hall sensors in the track and LGB switch sensor for controling the position of the switches.

In order to have the Massoth 280R feedback modules programmed correctly they require the setup as shown below, i.e.:
- Over flank control (CV 55, 65, 75 and 85 = 1)
- Contact numbers are programmed sequential from module to module, going from 1-4, 5-8, 9-12 etc. for module #1, #2, #3 etc., this gives the physical contact address numbers which also are sequential (for the first three modules the contact address numbers will be 1 to 24, and so on for any further modules)
- Rocrail properties for the Massoth 1210Z require the "Reset" option activated in order for the a and b contact to be used with separate contact numbers according to the link below:
Rocrail Massoth command station setup

This setup may not be correct if you are using a different software like iTrain, but you may try that.

In Rocrail I believe the Navigators are only locked out for the locomotive IDs which the software are in control of. In full automatic mode that would mean all locomotives registered in the Loco Table as shown in the left part of the Rocrail window below. In semi-automatice or manual mode only the locomotives you run in the software are locked out.

So far testing out the feedbacks for modules FM01 to FM07 (a total of almost 45 sensors inputs in use so far as shown in the red rectangles below) the system works fine in semi-auto mode.

 

[Diesel2000]

I am in the process of setting up Rocrail with Massoth 280R feedback modules for both Massoth hall sensors in the track and LGB switch sensor for controling the position of the switches.

In order to have the Massoth 280R feedback modules programmed correctly they require the setup as shown below, i.e.:
- Over flank control (CV 55, 65, 75 and 85 = 1)
- Contact numbers are programmed sequential from module to module, going from 1-4, 5-8, 9-12 etc. for module #1, #2, #3 etc., this gives the physical contact address numbers which also are sequential (for the first three modules the contact address numbers will be 1 to 24, and so on for any further modules)
- Rocrail properties for the Massoth 1210Z require the "Reset" option activated in order for the a and b contact to be used with separate contact numbers according to the link below:
Rocrail Massoth command station setup

This setup may not be correct if you are using a different software like iTrain, but you may try that.

In Rocrail I believe the Navigators are only locked out for the locomotive IDs which the software are in control of. In full automatic mode that would mean all locomotives registered in the Loco Table as shown in the left part of the Rocrail window below. In semi-automatice or manual mode only the locomotives you run in the software are locked out.

So far testing out the feedbacks for modules FM01 to FM07 (a total of almost 45 sensors inputs in use so far as shown in the red rectangles below) the system works fine in semi-auto mode.

View attachment 296852

View attachment 296853

This is great, thanks. So the setting is switch command over flank control. I will give this a try.

 

[Diesel2000]

I got some assistance on the iTrain forum and was able to determine the correct settings for the Massoth feedback module and track contacts:

The feedback module needs to be set to level control mode (CV55, 65, 75, 85 = 2). Addresses are set as 1, 3, 5, 7 in CV52, 62, 72, 82 respectively. The 'B' input on the module is automatically +1, which is how all the PC addresses become sequential. This set up allows for 8 track contacts per feedback module. 40 track contacts can therefore be used with each master + 4 slave module sets. If more are needed then more master + slave modules can be used as long as the bus address is updated on the additional masters.

iTrain now sees the close and open signals from the track contacts when a loco drives over with a magnet underneath it. The 'Use Positions' feature can use these types of feedback sensors effectively as long as speed and loco specifics have been defined.

 

[Slawman]

I am not sure if you have already locked any particular system in however I have been using TrainControl (Silver) Freiwald for a few years now and it plays well with the Massoth gear. I have an 800z Central Station and LGB and Marklin locos.

 

[Diesel2000]

I am not sure if you have already locked any particular system in however I have been using TrainControl (Silver) Freiwald for a few years now and it plays well with the Massoth gear. I have an 800z Central Station and LGB and Marklin locos.

Thanks for the reply. A year on and I'm fully iTrain and Marklin. I used my Massoth gear with iTrain for most of last year, but got a CS3+ over the summer and started to used that to control trains/accessories and my 800z for the feedbacks. I just finished converting to Marklin S88 feedbacks and prefer that setup now. There is almost no configuration required for the S88 feedbacks, which made updating 50+ pretty easy.

I didnt really try any other software other than RocRail, but really like iTrain. The tutorial videos and documentation really help understand all the capabilities, and they keep increasing, so for me I find it to be an excellent platform that I plan to keep using for a long time.

 

[Slawman]

It is good you have settled into a solution. The learning curve with these systems is quite steep and can get in the way of enjoying your railway until you are familiar with it all. I like that the iTrain is Mac friendly, I am having all sorts of trouble trying to get TrainControl running on Parallels windows emulator at the moment. Does iTrain run well with Massoth? It is not listed by them as a supported system.

 

[Diesel2000]

It is good you have settled into a solution. The learning curve with these systems is quite steep and can get in the way of enjoying your railway until you are familiar with it all. I like that the iTrain is Mac friendly, I am having all sorts of trouble trying to get TrainControl running on Parallels windows emulator at the moment. Does iTrain run well with Massoth? It is not listed by them as a supported system.

Yes, the learning curve is quite steep indeed. The Massoth system does work with iTrain, but there are some issues. The 1210Z uses a USB interface and sometimes it produces errors when connecting to iTrain. The developer recommends using the older 1200 and 800Z with RS232 interfaces. I also have an 800Z and found this to be more stable. The 1210Z USB implementation appears to be non-standard, which is a shame.

Everything else works fine - the Massoth feedback modules are more complex to program as I've noted in this thread, but I figured it out and they worked well with the 800Z. I am using the Massoth track contacts as well.

The Massoth integration is basic so you will need to fully configure all the locos in iTrain. The CS3 communicates with iTrain and uploads its roster, which makes configuration in iTrain much faster.