Electronic Analog Pantographs & Flashing Lights On DCC

[Big Trak]

A while ago I bought an analog LGB 20420 MOB electric loco with automatic electronic pantographs and was wondering if anyone has used this or a similar loco in analog mode on an MTS/DCC track?

I wasn’t sure what effect the AC current used by DCC/MTS would have on the pantograph motors. Would they burn out or would the left and right pantographs raise and lower alternately?

I’ve also got an analog LGB 21330 maintenance loco with flashing lights on the roof. Would the lights work correctly if the loco was used in analog mode on an MTS track?

 

[Greg Elmassian]

Do you mean the old "address 0" trick that makes a lot of noise, heats the motors and makes it run lousy?

 

[Big Trak]

Do you mean the old "address 0" trick that makes a lot of noise, heats the motors and makes it run lousy?

Yes.

 

[phils2um]

I can't answer you question but do suggest that you put a decoder in your MOB Ge 4/4 III. It's relatively straight forward and inexpensive if you don't want sound. You can get what you need for less than $100. Installation is identical to this: Installing a Massoth eMotion XLS in an early LGB Ge 4/4 III . Only the motor and track pick-up wires and 6 conductor ribbon cable between the decoder and loco's interface board need to be connected for a non-sound decoder. A function key will need to be configured to operate the Aux1 decoder output to operate the pantographs.

 

[Big Trak]

I think I’ll have to do that. Thanks!

 

[RhB Oregon]

I believe that locos with pantographs can only be run on analog 12volt DC if using the overhead current supply. You have to select either catenary or track current and the trucks have a red dot that has to be placed in a certain orientation to the current hook ups. They don't recommend AC going into the pantographs! You might want to go to Only Trains web site and look up the manual for your loco and read about the different directions according to how you want to run it.

 

[RhB Oregon]

I believe that locos with pantographs can only be run on analog 12volt DC if using the overhead current supply. You have to select either catenary or track current and the trucks have a red dot that has to be placed in a certain orientation to the current hook ups. They don't recommend AC going into the pantographs! You might want to go to Only Trains web site and look up the manual for your loco and read about the different directions according to how you want to run it.

Upon further study, my Allegra 22225 manual states the following: Catenary Power Operation: This locomotive can be operated with a powered catenary system. The bottom of this model is marked with a red dot. Place the model on the track with the red dot pointing to the rail that is not connected to the catenary power supply. CAUTION! This model may be powered with a catenary on analog layouts only. For operation with the digital Multi-Train System, the model must use track power. Otherwise, dangerously high voltages may result.

The Allegra model has a switch with 2 positions: position U: track power, position O: catenary power.

The model is designed for operation on LGB two-rail DC systems with conventional LGB DC train controllers or power packs (DC, 0-24 volts). (I mentioned max of 12 volts earlier in my notes)

You will need to confirm your model does not have a DC, DCC, mfx decoder at this time and run it on DC only.

If your model has DC, DCC, mfx installed, you will need to refer to your particular model to see which power setting you can use to run track power only.

My newer DC, DCC, mfx models do say the locomotive CANNOT be switched to operation from catenary.

Hope this helps,

Don

 

[phils2um]

Hi Don, I don't think Big Trak was asking about powering the loco using the pantographs. I believe he was concerned that using "address 0" to operate the analog loco on a DCC system may cause damage to the motors that operate the pantographs. The pantographs on this loco go up and down based on the loco direction (unless clipped in the down position) when operated on analog systems irregardless whether a decoder is installed. Pantograph operation is managed by the factory installed decoder interface boards in this particular generation of LGB Ge 4/4 III locos.

 

[RhB Oregon]

Phil,

You are absolutely correct! I just jumped off into the deep end a bit. Had a good discussion with LGB customer service today and learned a bit more about the DC/DCC items to watch out about. My new Crocodile has a catenary switch and a DCC switch in the cab that is not discussed in their operations manual. Also, dangerous to have actual catenary wires over a DCC powered layout in case a catenary wire fell onto the tracks, thus frying your entire system. Just wanted to cover the bases in case OP had catenary on his layout. Thanks for your reply.

 

[dunnyrail]

Phil,

You are absolutely correct! I just jumped off into the deep end a bit. Had a good discussion with LGB customer service today and learned a bit more about the DC/DCC items to watch out about. My new Crocodile has a catenary switch and a DCC switch in the cab that is not discussed in their operations manual. Also, dangerous to have actual catenary wires over a DCC powered layout in case a catenary wire fell onto the tracks, thus frying your entire system. Just wanted to cover the bases in case OP had catenary on his layout. Thanks for your reply.

The system with a decent DCC system will not fry if overhead falls onto the rails, should just trip out the same way as with a derailment.

The issue with overhead and DCC is the old concept of variable rail and overhead on analogue Control that would give you 2 locomotives under separate control. This clearly not a requirement with DCC thus under normal circumstances the overhead would be dead to power.

However with DCC nothing wrong with having both rails common with the overhead passing power (analogue terms used here as it is not easy to describe the equivalent in DCC). However as Melbournesparks has shown this can cause interesting spark effects that may be an issue with DCC systems. The genereral view with overhead and common rails being that you have 2 rails thus possibly reducing track cleaning.

 

[Melbournesparks]

The system with a decent DCC system will not fry if overhead falls onto the rails, should just trip out the same way as with a derailment.

The issue with overhead and DCC is the old concept of variable rail and overhead on analogue Control that would give you 2 locomotives under separate control. This clearly not a requirement with DCC thus under normal circumstances the overhead would be dead to power.

However with DCC nothing wrong with having both rails common with the overhead passing power (analogue terms used here as it is not easy to describe the equivalent in DCC). However as Melbournesparks has shown this can cause interesting spark effects that may be an issue with DCC systems. The genereral view with overhead and common rails being that you have 2 rails thus possibly reducing track cleaning.

For the warning about high voltages when using DCC and overhead, I assume they're talking about a situation where the overhead is +24v, the common rail is 0V, and the live rail is potentially -24v. So you get 48v between the live rail and the overhead, more than ideal for un insulated consumer level electronics.

These days with DCC and radio control there isn't really any advantage in running a 3 wire system using both running rails and the overhead wire. To me it just seems to combine the disadvantages of both when it is easier to have a true multi train system using other means.

 

[Big Trak]

My main concern was whether using the MOB loco in analog mode would cause the automatic pantographs to behave in an erratic way or if their motors would burn out. I guess fitting a decoder is the only way to prevent any problems.