does the Command station matter?

T

tripp10538

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I'm Building a DCC system, and I plan on doing all my programing and controlling from a PC (I'm thinking RR&CO). I want the software to do it all, automated routes, semi-automated train control, train detection and display, turn-out feedback, everything that can be done with software I want to be able to do. I want to use RR&Co, and its TrainControl and SmartHand. With smarthand, it sounds like I can achieve the coveted visitor "idiot-proof" standard, where a child simply can't crash a train as the software supersedes any manual control.

At the moment I plan on using a digitrax system to carry out the software commands. They have a series of Command Stations. I understand some of them are more powerful than others, some with 5 amps, others with 8amps. Forgetting the power for a moment (I can also add boosters right?) does it matter what features the Command station has if I'm just going to use the software to control it anyway. I don't see the need to purchase a throttle when the PC and smarthand will be my throttles. Couldn't I go with the simplest command station out there, provided it can take PC commands and programing, and has ability to work with the other components i'll need like turn-out control and train detection? Can I get away with not even having a command station at all?
 
Have a word with Cliff (cliff George) on the forum. His layout is totally computer driven, air points and all. It is a pretty complex one with up to five or six trains operating at once and all driven from software.
 
Yes, the command station matters in the sense that you need one.

No, in the sense that if you are going to use RR&Co you don't need one with lots of fancy features that you will not use.

I think Digitrax would be a good choice for you. It is popular over your side of the pond and has lots of RR&Co users so that any problems are quickly identified and fixed and there is a wealth of help available on the RR&Co forum. These reason are one of the reasons I went with Lenz, since it is popular this side.

Yes you can add more power via power districts.

Although you strictly could get away without a Digitrax throttle I think I would get at least one, the simplest they do. It is sometimes useful when fault finding and when setting up to prove things are working. Perhaps you could get a cheap second hand one via ebay if you don't want to spend much.
 
Normally I would expect the command station to be required as it will be responsible for coordinating and generating the DCC track signal which is then amplified by the power booster unit(s).

I've not played with train detection or transponding, but these features may require command station support. I guess it depends on whether the system you choose to buy allows your PC to connect into the system bus and interact directly with any device on the bus (eg. the detectors), or whether the PC has to go via the command station's PC interface and has to enquire about or be notified about detection events via the controlling command station.

Don't skip buying a throttle for the command station: you'll need it for testing that the basic DCC system works without worrying about the added complication of the PC and software, and there will be times you'll just want to switch on and drive a train!
 
I would just like to bring up one point--if you are using software to run the system without a normal central station how do you deal with short detection? For example I know Massoth has what I consider to be the best protection and my MTSIII has saved many a locomotive because it responds so quickly. Are you then relying on the booster to do the protection? If so, that's another consideration in what you buy...just my $0.02
:)
Keith
 
Interesting point Keith.

I'd expect the power booster to be responsible for short circuit detection (it is on my NCE system), that way the entire layout isn't shutdown if you get a short in one district.
 
Just remember Software for a PC is just a program and a PC has no hardware to run a model railway. The hardware is the central station plus feedback modules and train detection modules to feed the information back to the central station. When thinking about your choice do you want 24V. and what ampage do you want. :-\
 
ntpntpntp said:
I've not played with train detection or transponding, but these features may require command station support. I guess it depends on whether the system you choose to buy allows your PC to connect into the system bus and interact directly with any device on the bus (eg. the detectors), or whether the PC has to go via the command station's PC interface and has to enquire about or be notified about detection events via the controlling command station.
Click to expand...

Yes train detection is needed for computer control. It does need to be integrated into a command station at the moment, as far as I know. Digitrax have the LocoNet bus that can send feedback to the command station, and from there, via the computer interface, to the computer software. I think tripp10538 understands he needs some support for train detection because that is what his original post says.

It is possible to have more than one command station connected a control computer, one could be used for say driving trains, one for perhaps feedback, and even yet another for accessory control. However that is a bit over the top and most users stick with just one. It can help if users need more feedback sensors than can be supported on one system, or perhaps so that a DCC system that doesn't support feedback can be used. I don't think trip10538 needs multiple command stations.

It is possible to have just a feedback system, but still really based on being a command station, such as the Litfinski HSI-88 https://www.ldt-infocenter.com/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=en:hsi-88-usbto be used with S88 feedback bus units.

I suppose it is possible to imagine a bus such as USB being used to connect feedback units directly to a computer and not requiring any 'central point' however I'm not aware of any such units being available.

trip10538 does not need transponding, unless he also wants to detects train starting positions, the computer will keep track of where trains are after that. I don't think it is work having.
 
Keith RhB said:
I would just like to bring up one point--if you are using software to run the system without a normal central station how do you deal with short detection?
Click to expand...

Thanks for the comment Keith but I don't believe anyone has suggested it is possible to have a computer controlled DCC system without a command station.
 
To follow on from Cliff and Nicks discussion about feedback....
My simple DCC approach was to use a SPROG as a signal translator from USB serial input to DCC output. I then pushed the signal through an NMRA compliant booster onto the track. Short circuit protection, current, and voltage are then determined by the booster. This all worked fine, but of course no feedback.

So, yes, you do need a command station but at its most basic it only needs to act as a buffer for the feedback circuit and a signal generator for the boosters - nowhere does it say that you have to connect it to the track. So the main consideration is how well it works with the software you intend to use, not how powerful it is. Questions of power are dealt with in your choice of booster and are then determined by whether we are talking Cajun Pass or the Toonerville Trolley.

Clearly this approach isn't for everyone - if I wasn't interested in the software I would have saved up for my Massoth and got on with running trams. I could also switch between an NCC powercab handset and the SPROG signal, for the days when I couldn't be bothered to power up the laptop, so its definitely worth having a baseline system of central station and a simple handset.

There is some interesting stuff being done around where the software is hosted - in other words getting it off the laptop and onto devices like the Raspberry Pi. I've mothballed my DCC rig for the time being, but I am tempted to try and build a JMRI DCC appliance when I come back to it. (basically a nearly always on computer in fag packet you can talk to through a smart phone or a browser).

One day I would imagine the high end makers like Massoth to ship central stations with web servers that can access say, the Stellwerk style software hosted in the Massoth cloud, so you don't feel the need to connect an external device like a PC. (Or have to do firmware updates for that matter, Gordon). Effectively your central station should join the Internet of Things.
 
I have used PC control, but mainly as a Signal Panel with a track diagram to control points (switches in US parlance) and therefore routing.

As I have LGB MTS II, I used the LGB 55060 MTS PC Interface.

It can be programmed for driving the trains with a GUI throttle, but I preferred to use the LGB Loco Remote.

So as others have said, yes, a throttle is probably a must have....
 
Thanks for the feedback, This just about makes up my mind on how to go.

Seems like I can use Digitrax starter set with their DCS51. This is a Command Station, Booster, and Throttle all in one. That way I'll always have a throttle (built-in) to test and what not like everybody suggested.

I then add the various digitrax components, PM42 to make up my various power districts (and auto-reverser), DBL168 for detecting (don't need transponding as the RR&C software will be able to use detecting to synthesize transponding) and a PR3xtra to control it all with RR&C. Add boosters for more power as appropriate, wire it all up, and I'm ready to roll.....I think,

Does that sound about right?
 
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