Different Brands Different Voltages

JimmyB

JimmyB

Now retired - trains and fishing
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Been around model railways a while, and most analogue systems are 12 v DC and digital systems around 20 v, however when looking at adverts for garden railway stock there seems to be an array of voltages but very little information.
In 0 Gauge a loco will be designated as DC (analogue), DCC ready, (analogue, with no chip but ready to go) DCC (digital chip fitted) DCC with sound (digital with sound fitted).
With Garden Railways I appreciate there is battery, live steam and both can come with radio control, but I find that the adverts are not always clear.
Is there a simple rule of thumb - please.
 
JimmyB said:
Been around model railways a while, and most analogue systems are 12 v DC and digital systems around 20 v, however when looking at adverts for garden railway stock there seems to be an array of voltages but very little information.
In 0 Gauge a loco will be designated as DC (analogue), DCC ready, (analogue, with no chip but ready to go) DCC (digital chip fitted) DCC with sound (digital with sound fitted).
With Garden Railways I appreciate there is battery, live steam and both can come with radio control, but I find that the adverts are not always clear.
Is there a simple rule of thumb - please.
Click to expand...

I have locos from many manufacturers - Bachmann, LGB, Aristocraft, USAT, Playmobil, and Piko. I'm analogue (in practise and thinking) and find that on DC all will run happily on 12volts. Battery stuff I run can be anything from 4.8v upwards.

I think the only rule of thumb is run what you want!
 
Wellllllllllllllllllllllllllll................................. ;)

DC / analogue - You are looking at 12V plus really. 24Volts is fairly standard.
Remember, you DON't have to run flat-out!

DCC 'large scale' systems tend to be 19 - 24 Volts on the track.

Battery is a very mixed bag.. It depends on the motor in the loco really..
A LGB logo will be '24 Volts analogue', but this is a maximum figure, and running the motor at 7.2 Volts will probably be as fast as you need to go for a small loco.. You may well need 14.4 - 19.2 Volts for big 'express', especially if it is an American outline diesel.
 
JimmyB said:
Is there a simple rule of thumb - please.
Click to expand...

If it's sold as G scale or G gauge it should be O.K. at up to about 24V but some brands may run at silly speeds at that voltage. I suggest a fairly high voltage power supply to overcome any voltage drop round a large layout. Also it's easier to turn a higher voltage controller down than turn a low voltage controller up beyond its maximum.
 
In large scale it is better to go four amperage output. My old Crest power unit had two voltage settings 14V and 22V, and matching Amperage settings, too.

Some big lash-ups, like those run by Marty Cozad and rayman, with ABBBA or MU'd diesels/Big Boys and a hundred cars needed all the amps you could throw at them - one of rayman's trains consisted of four MTH Challengers and a literal hundred hoppers - no wonder we couldn't find any over here!

Some locos are amp hogs, others run on a whisper - I can run three Arisocraft SD45s on a little 14V/5A unit...yet another older Aristocraft AB won't budge until I crank up the V and A.

tac
 
I run battery and the largest voltage I have is 14.4V but 5A, most are either 12V or 10.8V for small locos (LGB Stainz etc)

I run small short trains on a branch line/narrow guage themed line so fast moving multi-headed trains would look ridiculous.

Again its horses for courses.
 
Gordon makes a good point. LGB began as a 14v DC system in 1968 and by the time Playmobil arrived in 1980 they had upped this to '14 to 18v' and then later 22v.

Luckily most locos even now need far less to run quite well.

If you go back further in history DC trains in 00 or H0 had lower voltages. Say 6vDC or lower in the 1930s. It was the arrival of Hornby Dublo in 1938 that began the 12v DC tradition that has been widely copied ever since. It was successful because it worked far better than the earlier low voltage systems.

As has also been said amperage makes a real difference: my earliest LGB transformers from the late 70s and early 80s were barely around a couple of amps but LGB kept upping this and settled on 5amps which is as much as I feel safe using on any circuit. They did dabble with a 10 amp unit but if any joints in the rails were the least bit faulty the damage that the resultant heating could cause would be scary.

Ironically many manufacturers once tried high voltage systems running directly off a mains supply reduced only by a household light bulb or two! Even Hornby made such a set in the 1920s!

To me the prospect of 10 amps on the rails seems not that much safer!

James
 
The couple of battery-powered LGB conversions that I've done so far (a 2095 Austrian BoBo and a Saxon Meyer IVk) both use 14.8 volts provided by either a 4-cell (4S1P) or an 8-cell (4S2P) Lithium-Ion pack; this gives plenty of voltage to operate the Massoth DCC decoders and the Tam Valley Dead Rail receivers that drive the decoders via a wireless DCC signal. Both are two-motor locos, and the 4-cell pack gives well over three hours of running time, the 8-cell more like six hours.
In both cases the 14.8 volts is more than sufficient for any sort of reasonable speed you might want such a loco to do.....

Jon.
 
James Day said:
Ironically many manufacturers once tried high voltage systems running directly off a mains supply reduced only by a household light bulb or two! Even Hornby made such a set in the 1920s!

To me the prospect of 10 amps on the rails seems not that much safer!

James
Click to expand...

The Lionel ZW "0" Gauge 275 watt transformer/controllers from the 1950s pushed out about 13 amps at 20 volts. :devil::devil:
 
Lobethalbahn2 said:
The Lionel ZW "0" Gauge 275 watt transformer/controllers from the 1950s pushed out about 13 amps at 20 volts. :devil::devil:
Click to expand...

With a metal based three rail track there was probably less material likely to melt or burn than say LGB, but I bet accidentally touching the rails was painful!

James
 
With my Battery Conversions I have generally stuck with packs of 12 Cells AA Nimh. This gives a nominal voltage of just under 14 Volts. With my Stainz I have used 8 Cells just under 9.6 Volts. I have recently built a Railcar and that had 15 Cells at just under 18 Volts. This has proved to be a little fast in the Top Speed department due partially to the additional voltage but also due to the fact that it is my first Battery Loco controlled with a Viper, something that needs to be investigated to slow down the top out speed. All my other 4 Battery Conversions have Aristocraft Crest Control System which has superb top speed reduction. All of my Battery conversions also have differing types of Sound Systems as well. I quote Voltage "just under" as rechargeable Batteries are never quite the 1.2 Volts that a non rechargeable one would be.
 
To put it in more simple terms - any power supply from one of the larger manufacturers of your locos will work fine.

Most of the locos available commercially are track electric or live steam. Live steam is fairly obvious, a battery loco will nearly always be advertised a s such and if nothing is said, it is a fair bet its track electric. Digital is usually noted but not always.
 
JimmyB said:
Many thanks for the replies, which gives me a better understanding. I currently have a small Bachmann controller, and it seems that until I know what direction I am going it should do just fine.
Click to expand...

Well said..

You probably need to get to see other lines / visit a few exhibitions, perhaps..

Then have a think what you want.. Small branch line. Shunting operations. A loop, to have something keep you company whilst gardening. Narrow gauge or standard. Do you want a tableau of a station / village?

It doesn't have to all happen at once, but do get a little something running early on if you can.
 
I take a bit of exception to this statement: "To put it in more simple terms - any power supply from one of the larger manufacturers of your locos will work fine."

Not true, you can buy an LGB supply under one amp which will not run a USA Trains Diesel, and in fact there are certain LGB locos it will not run.

So, voltage will normally be expressed in speed, and slow speed, narrow gauge, shunting won't need much voltage and mainline operations will need more.

But current available should also be considered, and of course your future... buying an adequate power supply this year and next year wanting to run more locos at the same time could make this year's power supply inadequate.

Greg
 
I understand where you are coming from Greg but no need to take exception.
I was trying to keep it simple for a new comer. True, a powerful controller is useful but a start up in the UK is very unlikely to have a USA trains 12 wheel diesel. It is very easy to bombard a new comer with loads of voltages and amps and leave them in a worse position than when they started.
 
Greg, Alan, many thanks, and whilst the statement "To put it in more simple terms - any power supply from one of the larger manufacturers of your locos will work fine." is a generalisation, I also appreciate Greg's point, and in the long term is worth bearing in mind.
 
Like a lot of G scale things it seems a bit of a mess. I started out with Aristo locos and 2.5 amp controllers. I then bought USA trains locos and these controllers were now inadequate, so I phoned a manufacturer who did 5 amp and 10 amp controllers to ask for advice. He told me that the 10 amp could have quite a bad effect on the garden wildlife so I bought the 5 amp model. However, now that I look out through my living room window at the grey squirrels...........
 
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