Derailment problems with metal wheels, no derailments when plastic wheels are placed back...

[Paulus]

A few years ago I replaced the plastic wheels on several ordinary LGB 4 wheel coaches and freight cars to metal ones as I thought this would improve running. And it seems it did, the cars ran more 'steady' as I remember. I bought the Liliput/Bachman metal wheels that were pricewise very interesting and fitted nicely on the LGB cars. Shortly after that I was a few years sidetracked from running trains and the rolling stock was stored until I moved in my new home a two years back.

But now I started running the cars and coaches on my new layout I am facing problems; the cars with metal wheels tend to derail quite often.
The tracks on the new layout are as water-pas-flat as I never had before although I noticed in one curve on one spot the cars seem to run on 3 instead of four wheels for a few inches. I am not sure what causes this, the tracks or perhaps the LGB couplers tilting cars since I use LGB R1 curves due to lack of space. But this tight radius was actually never a problem before. The derailments take place on several locations were there are no noticeable irregularities in the track.

And the strange thing is... since I replaced the metal wheels back with the old plastic ones almost all the derailments are over! Cars that derailed often with the metal wheels now run their rounds without any problem.
What can this cause? Has anybody experienced the same? What can I do to solve it or do I just use the plastic ones?

 

[Paul M]

Really silly question, have you lubricated the metal wheels and made sure they've not got pitted?

 

[Greg Elmassian]

have you measured the gauge, back to back and flange characteristics?

Also are you running stock switches, modified or not to meed G1MRA specs, and what brand?

Also, checking binding and end play on the axles.

Greg

 

[Rhinochugger]

have you measured the gauge, back to back and flange characteristics?

Also are you running stock switches, modified or not to meed G1MRA specs, and what brand?

Also, checking binding and end play on the axles.

Greg

Yep, as Greg says, the axles not only need to move freely but need a certain amount of end play / side swipe.

It sounds as if the axles may not be compatible with the axle boxes - usually Bachmann wheelsets and LGB are interchangeable.

Is the wheel diameter the same? is something fouling somewhere?

 

[Gavin Sowry]

.... and check your track for sudden changes in cant (cross level), and dipped joints.
If you only have 3 wheel contact in places, then odds on, it is your track at fault.

 

[dunnyrail]

A worthwhile thing is to make a Flat using Perspex, some screw on Axle Guards Made up on Glass to ensure Flat. Also add a two way Small Spirit Level as well so that you can see any unevenness as you push it along. Pic below this is what I am talking about, Axle Guards were by 10mm Models. Possibly not still available but others would work.

 

[PhilP]

If the axle supports pivot... Are the pivot-screws slack enough to allow a little movement up and down sideways?

A bit of 'slop' in the system is good!

 

[JimmyB]

Had a similar problem last year all down to the B2B, and in places a dip on one side of the track, so a bit of both mentioned above.

 

[maxi-model]

Interesting. If the stock with steel wheelsets ran fine before being packed away it would seem to point to some aspect of the stock and track's storage could be the issue. Has something become distorted, track panels or underframe/axelguards on the stock. But as it only seems to affect the steel wheelsets then there could be issues about the back to back measurements, as mentioned by Greg, alllied to some aspect of their manufacture that gives them less play in their mounts/bearings thanthe plastoc ones. Max

 

[wandgrudd]

A worthwhile thing is to make a Flat using Perspex, some screw on Axle Guards Made up on Glass to ensure Flat. Also add a two way Small Spirit Level as well so that you can see any unevenness as you push it along. Pic below this is what I am talking about, Axle Guards were by 10mm Models. Possibly not still available but others would work.
View attachment 255527

Now that's very good, will have a go making my own.

 

[Rhinochugger]

A worthwhile thing is to make a Flat using Perspex, some screw on Axle Guards Made up on Glass to ensure Flat. Also add a two way Small Spirit Level as well so that you can see any unevenness as you push it along. Pic below this is what I am talking about, Axle Guards were by 10mm Models. Possibly not still available but others would work.
View attachment 255527

Most G scale stock will run OK on pretty rough track don't ask me how I know - but I can provide photographic evidence if required

....and that includes the finer scale flanges of Fn3 models as well.

Back to back issues on new wheelsets are unlikely, though not unknown, so that's a good, easy place to start.

For my money, though, I suspect that there is a lack of free movement somewhere - is the overall axle length the same as the plastic wheelset?

 

[Madman]

Are you running two axle rolling stock ? I have found that the standard 300 mm long stock tracks reasonably well on my layout, while the 335 mm long stock hates my track. And forget Playmobil. The axle to axle dimension is greater than LGB's 335 mm long stock and needs dead level track to stay on the rails.

 

[LGeoB]

Most G scale stock will run OK on pretty rough track don't ask me how I know - but I can provide photographic evidence if required

....and that includes the finer scale flanges of Fn3 models as well.

Back to back issues on new wheelsets are unlikely, though not unknown, so that's a good, easy place to start.

For my money, though, I suspect that there is a lack of free movement somewhere - is the overall axle length the same as the plastic wheelset?

I had a problem with some metal wheels in that the axles were longer than those on the plastic wheel sets. The metal wheels were not LGB but some third party ones. The ends of the axles occasionally caught on the outer chassis when the sub frame rotated. This happened on turnouts and on curves. Grinding a millimetre or two off of the axles fixed it.

Geoff

 

[dunnyrail]

I had a problem with some metal wheels in that the axles were longer than those on the plastic wheel sets. The metal wheels were not LGB but some third party ones. The ends of the axles occasionally caught on the outer chassis when the sub frame rotated. This happened on turnouts and on curves. Grinding a millimetre or two off of the axles fixed it.

Geoff

I think I had some similar problems with ‘G Scale’ wheels sourced from smaller suppliers in the USA. I now stick to Bachmann and LGB Metal Wheels, though Bachmann are not always ‘Wobble’ free or right for ‘Back to Back’. But generally those issues can be easily resolved by Bending or the odd washer in the joint. I also feel that a Nylon Washer or two is very handy to keep wheels in check if the Axle Width allows slop.

 

[Ozymandius]

Older Bachmann metal wheelset have plastic axles and in my experience have been known to work themselves wide to gauge and then cause problems. I glued mine back to gauge with superglue and haven't had any further issues.

I also followed Jon D's advice about washers on LGB four wheel coaches and that helped with running quality a lot too.

Good luck with resolving this.

Tony

 

[Paulus]

Thanks you all for your replies and advice! Sorry for my late reply.

The wheels roll rather freely but I will give them some extra lubrication. I don't think that the wheels don't fit; I used the Bachmann wheels also because they would be interchangeable with the LGB ones. Diameter is the same on wheels and axle.
Mmmmm... the lack of free side movement could be perhaps the issue. They seem pretty 'fixed' in place, the plastic wheels have more side to side movement. I also have to check the length of the axles as suggested.

Lots of things for me to check this weekend, hopefully to find some time for it

And yes.. the track at that specific point have to be fixed. The shorter the wheelbase the lesser problems it gives but for the four wheelers it is a risk.

Thats a nifty device Dunnyrail!

 

[Paulus]

Switches are LGB ones btw...