Dcc recommendations
- Thread starter Gtarling
- Start date
This is a pretty nice unit that is easily expanded if you ever need the additional capacity. The matching remote handset looks good too. Another advantage to the ESU is it will operate mfx (or as ESU calls it to avoid trademark infringement - M4) in addition to DCC. This makes running MLGB locos very straight forward should you happen to acquire any in the future. I think you will be happy with it.
stevedenver
Registered
Being in a similar situation, to OP, but for manipulating issues, what system would allow me the easiest no fuss operation of my lab mfd locos? Ie put them on the track, twirl a know, push a button.
I have struggled mightily understanding my ancient “experimental” mts 3. I can get some functions, but usually don’t understand it well at all. I like idiot proof, please. Something I can play with without needing to program.
Cost is less a concern. I looked at zimo but don’t know if I can simply place a loco and it will recognize max. Otoh, I only have 5 max locos and 1 e-motion, all of which I run dc/analog.
I am attracted to mark pin central station 3, but would like help too. Not sure su is in the US
I have struggled mightily understanding my ancient “experimental” mts 3. I can get some functions, but usually don’t understand it well at all. I like idiot proof, please. Something I can play with without needing to program.
Cost is less a concern. I looked at zimo but don’t know if I can simply place a loco and it will recognize max. Otoh, I only have 5 max locos and 1 e-motion, all of which I run dc/analog.
I am attracted to mark pin central station 3, but would like help too. Not sure su is in the US
Greg Elmassian
Guest
what are "lab mfd" locos? could it be LGB MFX?
The easiest way is to have a system that automatically recognizes the locos placed on the track, you pick it from a menu and go...
BUT!!! when it does not work automagically, it is a living hell.
I have my loco addresses set (once) to the last 4 digits of the road number, if the road number is fewer digits I add zeros... done one time, done forever.
Hand a throttle to a 5 year old... tell them to look at the loco number, and hit "select loco", type in 4 digits and go.
Marginally more work, but no voodoo, no locked into someone's controller or decoder.
You can make DCC as complex or as simple as you want.
MTS is a mess, touchy to noise in the system, "loses" locos all the time, most of the time the fix is "reset everything".... you can read about this on the MTS DCS forums.
DCC is way easier. You can make ANYTHING an issue, but you are NOT forced to use all the fancy DCC stuff if you don't want to... old wives tales from the battery mafia and people who used DCC 20 years ago.
Greg
The easiest way is to have a system that automatically recognizes the locos placed on the track, you pick it from a menu and go...
BUT!!! when it does not work automagically, it is a living hell.
I have my loco addresses set (once) to the last 4 digits of the road number, if the road number is fewer digits I add zeros... done one time, done forever.
Hand a throttle to a 5 year old... tell them to look at the loco number, and hit "select loco", type in 4 digits and go.
Marginally more work, but no voodoo, no locked into someone's controller or decoder.
You can make DCC as complex or as simple as you want.
MTS is a mess, touchy to noise in the system, "loses" locos all the time, most of the time the fix is "reset everything".... you can read about this on the MTS DCS forums.
DCC is way easier. You can make ANYTHING an issue, but you are NOT forced to use all the fancy DCC stuff if you don't want to... old wives tales from the battery mafia and people who used DCC 20 years ago.
Greg
The big question is whether you need a remote with a real throttle knob and function buttons. If you don't have a problem using a smartphone or tablet as a controller then I'd recommend the Märklin CS3 for you. Your mfx locos will self-register. It takes about a minute for the initial registration to complete. However, any DCC locos you have will need to be manually entered into the CS3 loco database but the process is relatively straightforward. All locos, both mfx and DCC only need to be registered once.
Also, the CS3 makes changing the settings on MLGB locos very easy.
I do not recommend the CS3+ for large scale use (or any scale for that matter). The CS3+ expanded hardware ability to interface with additional CS3s is of no value. You can have as many remote smartphone/tablet/networked controllers connected to a single CS3 as you would ever want or need by hooking the CS3 to a wireless router. And, if s88 feedback capability is desired, it is much less expensive and you get more capability by adding a Link s88 module to a CS3.
If you are seriously considering the Märklin CS3 I recommend you spend the roughly $25 to get the CS3 "Large Manual" first. The Märklin Item No. 03093.
Greg Elmassian
Guest
Personally, I would not go MFX unless I was committed to all MFX locos.
This gives you a much wider set of choices.
This gives you a much wider set of choices.
ONLY ANALOGUE WILL GIVE YOU THAT.
BEST TO GET TO GRIPS WITH WHAT THE SYSTEM WILL GIVE YOU WITH ONE LOCO. JUST DRIVE TO AND FRO, THEN WRITS A CARD WITH NUMBER 0-9 ON AND PRESS EACH ONE IN TURN WRITE ON THE CARD WHAT OCCURS. YOU SHOULD THINKS LIKE GET 0 TURNS LIGHTS ON, 1 WHISTLE ETC.
NOW YOU UNDERSTAND 1 LOCO YOU WILL NEED TO GET TO LEARN HOW TO CHANGE THE NUMBER OF EACH LOCO TO GET THEM TO OPERATE. THIS IS CV1 THAT MAKES EACH LOCO UNIQUE TO YOUR SYSTEM. IF YOU CANT MANAGE THAT GET SOMEONE TO DO IT FOR YOU.
AS HAS BEEN SAID THE CS3 IS GARBAGE, EVEN WORSE YOU NEED TO LOOK AT AN iPAD OR MOBILE PHONE TO RUN TRAINS.
DCC IS TRICKY TO START WITH, BUT PERSEVERANCE AND SMALL STEPS WILL GET YOU THERE.
By who? Certainly not by me! I think we'll have to agree to disagree. My only gripe with my Märklin/CS3 system is the booster limit of 5 amps. And, I'll be the first to admit this was the root of all the initial issues I had with my CS3. Control issues will manifest themselves when the 5 amp limit is taxed. It was only when trying to run three trains on 5 amps that I ran into problems. I've overcome this issue by adding a second booster and power district. But, none of my locos are power hogs except for for my FO Hg4/4 which needs around 3 amps when all the smoke, bells and whistles are active. 5 amps will easily run two LGB standard production two motor locos and rakes of lighted passenger wagons I operate. However, I'm not trying to emulate US mainline operation with three or more diesel locos hauling 50+ cars.
There seems to be the impression that the CS3 (and ESU ECos) are either mfx or DCC. This is just not true. Both control protocols happily co-exist on these units without any problem. I regularly run mfx and DCC locos at the same time with no interference between protocols. And, all my turnouts and wagon light decoders are DCC protocol.
One final feature of the CS3 I really appreciate is the Events programming. I am very pleased by the built-in automation possibilities afforded by the CS3 operating system. I've only beginning to explore the system's automation capability since putting in some feedback this summer.
MTheStrong
Registered
I have just returned from Germany and in the latest Digitale Modellbahn magazine there is an article on the new LoDi-Con from lokstoredigital which works with the CS2/CS3 and other Central Stations. It is not cheap but has a lot of very useful features. Here is a link to their website: lokstoredigital
There is a pdf file at Paragraph 14 on the website which shows all the features etc
Martin
stevedenver
Registered
Thanks to all, and especially to Greg for recognizing what was, either auto correct or fumble fingers, from a ‘very rare and hard to find’…(lol…ebay speak)….post from my phone……
Diesel2000
Registered
I totally agree with Phil here. I recently moved to a CS3+ from a Massoth 1210z CS and other than the power limitation of 5amps I love it. I have a fair number of newer LGB locos and the MFX registration is so simple. Just drop it on the track and start controlling it, no need for addresses at all. It controls DCC locos just fine and set up for those is very straightforward as well. It also can support MM format and controls all 3 at the same time. Its truly a multiple-protocol unit, similar to the ESU ECOS.
I'm using a Massoth 1202B booster with the CS3+ in order to get 12 amps to the layout. This way I dont need any additional boosters and maintain my original 4 power districts and reversing section. I typically get up over 6amps with multiple trains, lights, and smoke units. You cant register locos through the Massoth booster (yet), but I do that with a separate track plugged right into the CS3. Afterwards there are no issues controlling them.
One of the things I like the most about the CS3 is NOT having a dedicated handheld and being able to use an iPad/iPhone to control the CS3 wirelessly. As Phil noted all you need is to connect the CS3 up to a wireless router that covers your layout area.
The automation features with Events are certainly a huge step up from whats available in the Massoth CS directly, but I went even further with hooking the CS3 up to a PC to use iTrain for automation, which is very easy to do once the CS3 is hooked up to the router. The CS3 automatically loads the loco list into iTrain, which really helps cut down on set up time there.
Where the CS3 falls down somewhat is programming decoders in DCC. For MFX decoders its fantastic and highly recommended, but DCC programming is somewhat lacking and it does not have Switch POM programming mode. One can use JMRI decoder pro, however, so its really not that big of a limitation.
I have said it in the past on other threads about DCC and by others in the past that have shown their displeasure about the CS3. But of course some will live it, I have had experience with it on a friends layout, it was awful to use. He has now gone with another controller now. The CS3 collects dust. But as has been linked by
MTheStrong
a new handset that is compatible with the CS3 and joy of joys the Z21 that I have one of. So perhaps there is hope though the thoughts about programming chips with the CS3 by
Diesel2000
go along with my experience.
stevedenver
Registered
Fwiw, i bought the latest cs3 manual, mostly to see if i could grasp the overall use and application of dcc, in a familiar to me brand.I have said it in the past on other threads about DCC and by others in the past that have shown their displeasure about the CS3. But of course some will live it, I have had experience with it on a friends layout, it was awful to use. He has now gone with another controller now. The CS3 collects dust. But as has been linked by
Well im about 33% finished with the latest cs3 guide/user manual (180+pages…). It is, seemingly, to my poor bear-of-little-brain brain, it IS a lot…
for much more sophisticated and automated train running than i wish.
i was primarily interested in the cs3’s auto recognize mfx aspect, ie place loco on track and it knows the loco, as all my locos with decoders are lgb. The manual gave me a bit of a headache, due to the scope of potential application. Theres a lot of iconography.
i was also attracted to the cs3’s aspect of simulated water/fuel consumption and cab control graphics. Kinda like a game while running trains…
then….i revisited gregs site, and read the sagacious section, do you need dcc? Im coming closer to wondering if its worth it to simply access my mfx sounds/control on 7-8 locos….
i was tempted to jump in with some system, but i am fearful i wont ‘get it’ even after hands on attempts.
but buying reading the manual is helping, a bit.
but dunnys comments , and others, are definitely being taken to heart.
Glad you bought the 'Big" manual before making a final decision. DCC/mfx is not necessarily for everyone. You may be better off just sticking to analog control as I don't think the cost and technical ability needed to convert your locos and operate battery/RC would work for you either.
Can you visit anyone who has the system? A bit of hands on practice may help in your final decision
Cost can be a bit of an issue with battery dcc, but I have found the fitting is very easy and with the FOSWORKS RX/TX that I use no need to even change the loco number CV1. However fitting can sometimes be a bit of a challenge but with 7-8 locomotives a single FOSWORKS Tx controller can handle up to 10, others more than that.
stevedenver
Registered
Im a bit of an odd duck. (Perhaps not here,but in ‘real life”lol).
Im the only person i know who has trains. I belonged to the denver garden rwy society for a year, but found it not my cuppa at the time. Mostly retirees, some foamers, all very nice, but it seemed trains were their focus in life. In any event, i know of no one to visit With dcc/cs3.
as for installing stuff, i can do that.
Its the programming /cvs, etc., that i dont understand. As for converting locos….i have about 90+ lgb locos….some decoder ready, more not. The cost, including sound and speakers….yoiks…..
i shall try to persevere. It’s difficult when you dont know what you dont know..ie….did i do this right?or, is the equipment wonky….or, worse,$2500 of new zimo kit and i cant make a loco move……no less find its address…..
Im the only person i know who has trains. I belonged to the denver garden rwy society for a year, but found it not my cuppa at the time. Mostly retirees, some foamers, all very nice, but it seemed trains were their focus in life. In any event, i know of no one to visit With dcc/cs3.
as for installing stuff, i can do that.
Its the programming /cvs, etc., that i dont understand. As for converting locos….i have about 90+ lgb locos….some decoder ready, more not. The cost, including sound and speakers….yoiks…..
i shall try to persevere. It’s difficult when you dont know what you dont know..ie….did i do this right?or, is the equipment wonky….or, worse,$2500 of new zimo kit and i cant make a loco move……no less find its address…..
Greg Elmassian
Guest
Did you buy Zimo? If so, I have lots of pages and how to on my site, email me
Like Greg, I have the Zimo system but I never go over 5 amps.. I like the system as it is very flexible in that you can adjust voltage and current on both the 12 amp and 8 amp outputs and only the 8 amp output can program decoders, the 12 amp can not. So my RR has the 12 amp tied to it and the 8 amp is for my test bench. On another note one could use the 12 amp for large G scale and the 8 amp for programming and running ho trains as the output can be set to 14 volts and 3 amps in less than 30 seconds and the 12 amp is at 12 amps.. Or keep the 8 amp for HO trains and all you need is one handheld to run engines on both outputs and different scales at the same time.