CS3 Trials and Tribulations

[PhilP]

Basically, yes..
'255' is full track voltage, so each value is roughly 1/255th of said voltage.
If the 'top-end' voltage is lower, then the 'stepped' top-end value will be lower.

 

[ntpntpntp]

HI All,

...Does the track voltage affect the top speed? The Marklin PS outputs 19.3V to the track as read on the CS3. I believe the LGB MTS systems put 22V or 24V to the track. Would a lower CV5 value (in other words the original low value) be appropriate for a higher track voltage?

Phil S.

Absolutely it affects the top speed. The decoder can't put out volts to the motor than the track voltage - in fact it'll always bee a volt or two less due to the electronics. Of that available motor voltage the decoder then uses PWM (ie. it chops the power on-and-off) to control the motor speed. At half speed the motor "sees" power an average 50% of the time so it's as if only half the voltage is being presented.

CV5 is vHIGH, ie. the maximum speed. Usually this would be delivered as 255 as that's the highest value a single byte can store. 128 would be about 50%.

 

[stockers]

Best not to put CV5 up to maximum. Most modern decoders offer the back EMF/constant speed function. If the loco slows on a gradient or sharp curve the decoder increases the motor voltage to compensate. If CV5 is at maximum (255) there is no spare voltage to use so Back EMF can't work. Somewhere around 200 is OK but if 128 is fast enough then that will do just fine.

 

[stockers]

One use for a low value in CV5 is to limit the speed when kids are playing.

 

[phils2um]

14 speed steps - I just put my Anniversary LGB 27402 on the rails with the CS3. Speed control is no problem. There is an issue with the loco's lights. They are not controlled by the headlight function button and alternate between on and off depending on the speed controller setting.

 

[stockers]

14 speed steps - I just put my Anniversary LGB 27402 on the rails with the CS3. Speed control is no problem. There is an issue with the loco's lights. They are not controlled by the headlight function button and alternate between on and off depending on the speed controller setting.

That is the classic 14 - 28 speed step problem. You need to get the CS and the decoder the same.

 

[ntpntpntp]

[the lights] alternate between on and off depending on the speed controller setting.

Command station is set to 28 steps, loco is set to 14 steps. Hence the loco interprets every other speed step as having headlight control (because headlight bit is part of speed step byte @14 steps)

 

[duncan1_9_8_4]

Im going to get my point decoder next week and four point motors so brace yourself for some questions, as the manual does not make much reference to programming/installing points on a multi decoder and adding them to the cs3 display.....

 

[dunnyrail]

Im going to get my point decoder next week and four point motors so brace yourself for some questions, as the manual does not make much reference to programming/installing points on a multi decoder and adding them to the cs3 display.....

Suitably braced here in the nits.
JonD

 

[duncan1_9_8_4]

Suitably braced here in the nits.
JonD

Though apparently the switch decoders come pre numbered 1 to 4. So as I add the graphic to the cs3 to actually work them I presume it does it automatically and I just have to select multi decoder for each motor I add to my first multi decoder/ switch decoder?

 

[duncan1_9_8_4]

Well I'm sorry to disappoint gents. It was absolutely easy. As simple as just adding the item to the screen.

 

[phils2um]

I got the lights working properly last week on the 27402 and CS3 through some trial and error. But, thanks Stockers and ntpntpntp for the info on why things were not working. Specifically, the 14/28 speed step mismatch. Thanks too for the answer to the maximum speed vs. track voltage question I posed. I suspected the track voltage was the ultimate factor in a loco's max speed in the digital realm. Nice to have it verified. The digital learning curve is steep!

I just picked up an ESU LokProgrammer Set, 53452. It looks like a much easier way to program the ESU decoders in conjunction with their free LokProgrammer PC software program. ESU has some excellent videos on their web site showing it in action. I plan on using it to tweek the LokPilot XL V4.0 installed in my Ge2/4. Programming may be just as easy with the CS3 but Marklin's english language directions sure leave a lot to be desired.

As an aside, I also bought a couple of ESU 54610 HO/O decoders and associated power buffers with the intent of putting them in a Stainz and 2070D. Talk about tiny wires! I'm surprised they can handle the amperage of an HO loco much less O guage. I may try to make a go of one decoder/buffer set, but should probably send them back. That's the problem of buying things off the Web sight unseen. Think I'll stay with LokPilot/LokSound XL's or Massoth eMotion's from now on. You can actually put a screwdriver on them!

Phil S.

 

[dunnyrail]

I got the lights working properly last week on the 27402 and CS3 through some trial and error. But, thanks Stockers and ntpntpntp for the info on why things were not working. Specifically, the 14/28 speed step mismatch. Thanks too for the answer to the maximum speed vs. track voltage question I posed. I suspected the track voltage was the ultimate factor in a loco's max speed in the digital realm. Nice to have it verified. The digital learning curve is steep!

I just picked up an ESU LokProgrammer Set, 53452. It looks like a much easier way to program the ESU decoders in conjunction with their free LokProgrammer PC software program. ESU has some excellent videos on their web site showing it in action. I plan on using it to tweek the LokPilot XL V4.0 installed in my Ge2/4. Programming may be just as easy with the CS3 but Marklin's english language directions sure leave a lot to be desired.

As an aside, I also bought a couple of ESU 54610 HO/O decoders and associated power buffers with the intent of putting them in a Stainz and 2070D. Talk about tiny wires! I'm surprised they can handle the amperage of an HO loco much less O guage. I may try to make a go of one decoder/buffer set, but should probably send them back. That's the problem of buying things off the Web sight unseen. Think I'll stay with LokPilot/LokSound XL's or Massoth eMotion's from now on. You can actually put a screwdriver on them!

Phil S.

Just wait till you have a small 00 Layout and try fitting Sound Decoders with Track Pickups on a Tender. All dayer and then some.
JonD

 

[phils2um]

No thanks, I'll pass! I needed a 10x jewelers loupe just to clearly see the solder pads where the power buffer leads get attached. I don't think I can find a tip that small for my iron!

 

[phils2um]

Power! I need more! Marklin/LGB need to sort the USA issue with their 120V/100VA switching power supply.

1 LGB Ge 4/4 II w/sound and the 50VA 60065 PS (only PS currently available from Marklin/LGB in the USA) is maxed out. The lok's sucking about 3.2A @ 19V with 5 two-axel freight wagons, sound and lights on and my existing gradients. This according to the CS3's readout. The 5A the CS3 is capable of would at least let me run 2 trains w/o sound on if I had a PS that could put it out.

Yesterday I ordered an ESU ECoS 50011 8A booster. I was going to need at least one booster in addition to the CS3 anyway so decided to go ahead and bite the bullet. Supposedly it's plug and play with Marklin's CS2. I assume it's the same with the CS3! We'll see when it gets here.

Another question for the group in the meantime. Does anyone know how the 4 pin DIN plug Marklin uses on their power supplies is wired? Thought I'd ask before blowing up my 60065 with a short while checking with a VOM. 19V laptop PS's in the 100-160 watt range can be had fairly cheap here. If I can find the 4-pin DIN plug somewhere and knew how it was wired I could solve my current (bad pun) CS3 dilemma.

Phil S.

Note: the 4 pin plug is not a mini DIN 4 pin as I've miss-identified it above. It is actually a KPPX-4P compatible 4 pin plug. This is slightly larger than a mini DIN plug and has bigger pins.

Edit added June 26, 2018: Märklin now has a 110-120 V in, 22V/5A out PS available. Part No. 60195

 

[ntpntpntp]

Er.... there's a long thread about power supplies for the CS2 here (probably uses the same connector as the CS3?):
https://www.marklin-users.net/forum/posts/t17214-CS2--60214--power-supply

I didn't have time to read it all the way through as I'm @ work, there may be some links to connector diagrams in there somewhere?

[edit]
Yeah, pretty sure there is a sketch of the pin-out somewhere in that thread. It has 2 pins for DC and 2 pins for AC. Google shows me there's an image but our firewall blocks access to the image link.
[/edit]

 

[phils2um]

I had checked the marklin-users.net forum before posing the question. The diagram there is not clear. If I'm interpreting it correctly, it is wrong unless the CS2 has its power jack mounted 180 out from the CS3. I took a VOM to my 60065 this evening to check. Attached is a diagram of KPPX-4P plug used by Märklin looking into the plug end. (At last I've figured out how to do umlauts on my Mac.) The flat side of the plug, the bottom in the diagram below, is down when connected to the CS3. Pin 3 is Vdc+ and pin 4 is Vdc return. No load voltage across pins 3 and 4 measured 19.4 Volts DC. Pins 1 and 2 and the metallic shell of the plug are not electrically connected or used as conductors by the 60065 power supply.

I'm guessing from reading the marklin-users.net forum that pins 1 and 2 are used for AC voltage from Märklin AC transformers that use this type connector. But, don't quote me on that without checking for sure.

I should warn that Märklin's pin assignments probably will not agree with those used by other manufacturers that make switching mode power supplies having KPPX-4P compatible output plugs. For example, the AHM series power supplies from xPower have both pins 1 and 2 as power + out and both pins 3 and 4 as power return. The shell may be grounded or not connected depending on whether the device is class 1 or class 2.

Check carefully or attach your own connector if you use another manufactures' PS for your CS2/CS3! Don't automatically assume it's OK if it has the right plug.

 

[RedRoc]

Hello everybody and happy new year!

I have two locations where two points are connected to one decoder address and they work fine they are respectively 32 and 28 metres from the CS2 and Massoth DiMax controllers. They are on a dedicated but unboosted separate power circuit, not track powered. I also have an LGB 12260 double slip this was recognised by the CS 2 track diagram as such and when clicked on both motors operate according to the route selected. These motors each have their own address for when the Massoth DiMax is being used to control the layout.

I have decided for now to stick with the CS 2 as I cannot see enough improvement to warrant changing and, indeed there are a few things I’m not too keen on, at least until I know more about the new device. Especially, as I have just recently got the CS 2 and my WIN 10 tablet to speak to each other! Well 50/50 I can select locos, operate all the features and drive them perfectly but although my PC displays the track diagrams with no problem clicking on the points does not operate them on the layout. Does anybody here have any idea of as to what the issue is preventing the points from operating? If I’m in the wrong place please point (no pun intended) me to the right place, I don’t seem to have much luck with the forum search tool.

 

[phils2um]

Hello everybody and happy new year!

I have two locations where two points are connected to one decoder address and they work fine they are respectively 32 and 28 metres from the CS2 and Massoth DiMax controllers. They are on a dedicated but unboosted separate power circuit, not track powered. I also have an LGB 12260 double slip this was recognised by the CS 2 track diagram as such and when clicked on both motors operate according to the route selected. These motors each have their own address for when the Massoth DiMax is being used to control the layout.

I have decided for now to stick with the CS 2 as I cannot see enough improvement to warrant changing and, indeed there are a few things I’m not too keen on, at least until I know more about the new device. Especially, as I have just recently got the CS 2 and my WIN 10 tablet to speak to each other! Well 50/50 I can select locos, operate all the features and drive them perfectly but although my PC displays the track diagrams with no problem clicking on the points does not operate them on the layout. Does anybody here have any idea of as to what the issue is preventing the points from operating? If I’m in the wrong place please point (no pun intended) me to the right place, I don’t seem to have much luck with the forum search tool.

Hi RedRoc,

I started this thread to let others know about and help me with my CS3 experiences and problems. And, perhaps, help others new to the CS3 along the way. I don't have experience with the CS2 or any other digital control system for that matter so can't help you much. The CS3 is my first digital control system. I'm just beginning to walk - it seems you're already running marathons! I do suggest you check out the marklin-users.net forum which has a lot of information/experience about Märklin's CS2 including computer interfacing. Also, you might try posing your question as a separate thread on this forum. I wish you luck finding a solution.

In a somewhat related note, I did see some very enticing stuff when uploading locomotive photos to the CS3. This is accomplished by connecting to it with a web browser as explained on page 35 of the english CS3 manual. Too bad I don't verstand deutsch better! If you have a CS3 and have not yet looked at what comes up in your browser, give it a try. You just need to put the CS3's IP address in your browser's url line to connect (assuming you're on the same local network).

Phil S.

 

[phils2um]

Hi All,

Got the ECoSBoost yesterday and tried it out. As said in aviation speak - no joy. The CS3 and ESU booster don't communicate. At least not with the current state of firmware/software in both devices. The CS3 doesn't show the booster and the booster's led flash sequence indicates power but no control station connection. I can't check the the ECoSBoost firmware version without an ECoS control station to see if an update will fix the issue. Too bad it can't be done with the ESU Lokprogrammer I already have. The CS3 has the latest update. I should have done more research before jumping! After more reading, the ESU booster wont connect to the CS2 either but it will talk to Märklin's CS1.

The booster came with a 19Vdc, 180w switched mode power supply. As long as I had it I checked whether it might serve to power the CS3. It has the same type 4 pin DIN power plug. The ESU pin assignments based on the previous diagram which is repeated below are as follows:

pins 1 and 3 Vdc+,
pins 2 and 4 power return
Shell not connected.

As tempting as it is, I'm not going to plug it into my CS3. Pins 3 and 4 are what supply power to the CS3 and those would be OK but, I have no idea what pins 1 and 2 connect to.




By the way, KPPX-4P is the Kycon part no. for its 4pin DIN power connector. I ordered some of the same type connector from Digi-Key for $3 apiece. The connector sold by Digi-Key is made by CUI Inc. and has the part no. pdp-40. The pin numbering shown above from Kycon may be a DIN standard as the same numbering scheme is used by CUI for the pdp-40 and by xPower in the AHM series power supplies mentioned in my previous post. I also have a couple 19V, 120w switched mode power supplies coming from Amazon for $36. I'm retired, my time is cheap. So, for about an hour labor and $21 each I'll have my 5 amps to the rails plus a spare PS.

Wont mention what I paid for the booster. Anybody out there need an 8A ECoSBoost 50011?

Phil S.

edited 4/16/17 to correct a grammer error.