Conversion of (old) LGB and Piko locomotives with ESU XL

[bruno.degraeve]

Hi Bruno - In April 2021 I converted a customer's LGB 2085D DR Mallet to an ESU 5XL DCC sound decoder and used the BR96 Mallet #S0009 sound file. It only has 9 F Key sounds, however, compared to most of the other German steamers' sound files. Of course, the proper installation of the speaker in a locomotive is critical to the quality of the sound; on the LGB 2085 I placed it in the smoke box area using a Massoth 8241060 FRS5 50mm 5W 8 Ohm Speaker carefully positioned and the base air tight sealed around the speaker holes I drilled...........required a little other Dremel work for the fitment as I recall.
There's a demo video of that installation on my Website if you'd like to hear the sound file: LGB LOCOMOTIVE DEMO VIDEOS | My Site

Hi Tom, thanks for the hints and sharing your videos. That's already a good starting point !

 

[bruno.degraeve]

Hi Tom, thanks for the hints and sharing your videos. That's already a good starting point !

hi LGB333 ,

finally an ESU 5XL arrived at home and after cleaning the wheels (some got replaced) and rewire the engine (from 3 to 4), I was able to connect the wires to the decoder. With the ESU Lokprogrammer, I loaded another project (S0008, Br23). Once done I try to give a test run but the performance was such a disappointment. Than I realized the engine settings are most likely for an H0 and I took the BEMF settings from another project that works fine. (attached a readout with JMRI).

From your experience, is there anything you can share from your IP ? If you could share your ESU project that would be great, but I do understand it also contains your IP.

Have a nice weekend, all of you,
Bruno

 

[LGB333]

hi LGB333 ,

finally an ESU 5XL arrived at home and after cleaning the wheels (some got replaced) and rewire the engine (from 3 to 4), I was able to connect the wires to the decoder. With the ESU Lokprogrammer, I loaded another project (S0008, Br23). Once done I try to give a test run but the performance was such a disappointment. Than I realized the engine settings are most likely for an H0 and I took the BEMF settings from another project that works fine. (attached a readout with JMRI).

From your experience, is there anything you can share from your IP ? If you could share your ESU project that would be great, but I do understand it also contains your IP.

Have a nice weekend, all of you,
Bruno

View attachment 294225

Hi Bruno - Glad to hear you have the ESU LokProgrammer available............these decoders are so complex that it's an essential tool for setting up the decoder for the lights, motor, smoker, etc. First, for LGB locomotives, you'll want to go into the Decoder Menu and use the Motor Settings options. On the right side near the top, there's a Drop Down menu for motor control, use the Setting "Linear." Then near the bottom of the page, there's a Menu of Motor Types or something like that, open it up and at the bottom of the list, select 'LGB & KISS Motors" and then on your LokProgrammer select Write Decoder Data.......sets it into the decoder. You'll also need to go into the Decoder Menu under Function Mapping and adjust the F Key assignments as required for your wiring schema. Then you'll go into the next menu to adjust the voltage outputs for lights, smoker, and any other AUX terminals you're using. For an LGB locomotive's 5v. lights and 5v. smoker, I usually set them to "Dim" at the bottom of the screen and set the voltage slider to about "3" which on my DCC test stand equals about 6 volts output at the decoder's terminal "on load".

 

[Neil Robinson]

hi LGB333 ,

finally an ESU 5XL arrived at home and after cleaning the wheels (some got replaced) and rewire the engine (from 3 to 4), I was able to connect the wires to the decoder. With the ESU Lokprogrammer, I loaded another project (S0008, Br23). Once done I try to give a test run but the performance was such a disappointment. Than I realized the engine settings are most likely for an H0 and I took the BEMF settings from another project that works fine. (attached a readout with JMRI).

From your experience, is there anything you can share from your IP ? If you could share your ESU project that would be great, but I do understand it also contains your IP.

Have a nice weekend, all of you,
Bru

Take a look on page 72 of the ESU manual.
You should find a section,11.1.4, on automatic motor calibration.
The first part of this on leaving enough space for the loco to run for a couple of seconds is important. It can be a little alarming when you first perform this procedure but, in my experience, well worth doing.

 

[LGB333]

Take a look on page 72 of the ESU manual.
You should find a section,11.1.4, on automatic motor calibration.
The first part of this on leaving enough space for the loco to run for a couple of seconds is important. It can be a little alarming when you first perform this procedure but, in my experience, well worth doing.

Neil - Thanks for pointing out the automatic calibration method to Bruno. That's certainly an option to calibrate the motor as you indicate in the ESU LokSound 5 Series Instruction Manual. However, I've completed 15 - 20 installations of ESU 5XL sound decoders into customers' LGB locomotives and have found the default settings I suggested to Bruno have provided excellent operating results of the decoder and motors without having to resort to the "race track" automatic calibration approach. Maybe the automatic calibration approach is the best approach for certain other brand locomotives, but I only work on LGB models. But, of course, each hobbyist needs to decide what works best for them.

 

[Greg Elmassian]

Why not try the auto calibration and then compare the resulting settings to your "standards".... I love a smooth running loco.

Greg

 

[bruno.degraeve]

Hi Bruno - Glad to hear you have the ESU LokProgrammer available............these decoders are so complex that it's an essential tool for setting up the decoder for the lights, motor, smoker, etc. First, for LGB locomotives, you'll want to go into the Decoder Menu and use the Motor Settings options. On the right side near the top, there's a Drop Down menu for motor control, use the Setting "Linear." Then near the bottom of the page, there's a Menu of Motor Types or something like that, open it up and at the bottom of the list, select 'LGB & KISS Motors" and then on your LokProgrammer select Write Decoder Data.......sets it into the decoder. You'll also need to go into the Decoder Menu under Function Mapping and adjust the F Key assignments as required for your wiring schema. Then you'll go into the next menu to adjust the voltage outputs for lights, smoker, and any other AUX terminals you're using. For an LGB locomotive's 5v. lights and 5v. smoker, I usually set them to "Dim" at the bottom of the screen and set the voltage slider to about "3" which on my DCC test stand equals about 6 volts output at the decoder's terminal "on load".

Thank you Tom for the suggestions, I found the motor-settings you mentioned. I'm adding them her in case somebody else could reuse them:

Linear preset:


LGB motor preset (I assume the "Buehler Motor, generic" is for any LGB lok):


After I readjusted/realigned the wheels with the rods of the back engine, less power was consumed and the engine runs a bit smoother.
Although I seriously consider to change both engines and replace them with brand new spares.

The front engine runs smoother at low and middle speeds but at higher speeds, I noticed the Amp switch constantly between 0,29 and 0,52 Amps. Not a good sign.

Thank you all for your wise hints.

 

[bruno.degraeve]

Thank you Tom for the suggestions, I found the motor-settings you mentioned. I'm adding them her in case somebody else could reuse them:

Linear preset:
View attachment 294248

LGB motor preset (I assume the "Buehler Motor, generic" is for any LGB lok):
View attachment 294249

After I readjusted/realigned the wheels with the rods of the back engine, less power was consumed and the engine runs a bit smoother.
Although I seriously consider to change both engines and replace them with brand new spares.

The front engine runs smoother at low and middle speeds but at higher speeds, I noticed the Amp switch constantly between 0,29 and 0,52 Amps. Not a good sign.

Thank you all for your wise hints.

and when you add new axles, also consider that some parts are thicker than you expected. I had to remove some plastic from the closing lid. No wonder the rear engine was running far from smooth ;-(

 

[phils2um]

I had to remove some plastic from the closing lid.

I think I would have tried sliding the Chuff sensor magnet that is on the axle over a bit to get the clearance myself. I don't think LGB changed the axle support in their motor block moulds that significantly between early 3-wire and digital ready versions of this loco. Edit added: A closer look shows some trimming may have been necessary. That's water under the bridge in any case. But before giving up on the motors you might try blowing them out with a through spray of cleaner like CRC QD Electronic Cleaner, QD® Electronic Cleaner, 11 Wt Oz. One of my first locos, a mid-80s vintage LGB 2040 crocodile, began running kind of "lumpy" about a year ago. I took the motors out of the motor blocks and literally blew the crap out of them, mostly debris from brush wear I think, with QD Electronic Cleaner. It runs like new now.

 

[bruno.degraeve]

I think I would have tried sliding the Chuff sensor magnet that is on the axle over a bit to get the clearance myself. I don't think LGB changed the axle support in their motor block moulds that significantly between early 3-wire and digital ready versions of this loco. Edit added: A closer look shows some trimming may have been necessary. That's water under the bridge in any case. But before giving up on the motors you might try blowing them out with a through spray of cleaner like CRC QD Electronic Cleaner, QD® Electronic Cleaner, 11 Wt Oz. One of my first locos, a mid-80s vintage LGB 2040 crocodile, began running kind of "lumpy" about a year ago. I took the motors out of the motor blocks and literally blew the crap out of them, mostly debris from brush wear I think, with QD Electronic Cleaner. It runs like new now.

hi Phil,

Thanks for the feedback and hints. It is not the black chuff magnet itself which needed more clearance. The diameter of the axle at the end is too large and caused the fiction. It is larger to allow the chuff magnet to be fixed but they didn't had to make the enlargement that long. Anyway, the issue is fixed. One way or another ;-)
Would the electronic cleaner you proposed, something similar as Kontakt 60 , a product we have in Europe. Apart of using the contact spray, I removed all black dust out of the engines and removed all debris. If you look at this recording, I believe I managed to get a smooth running machine.

 

[MaximDeDonder]

hi Phil,

Thanks for the feedback and hints. It is not the black chuff magnet itself which needed more clearance. The diameter of the axle at the end is too large and caused the fiction. It is larger to allow the chuff magnet to be fixed but they didn't had to make the enlargement that long. Anyway, the issue is fixed. One way or another ;-)
Would the electronic cleaner you proposed, something similar as Kontakt 60 , a product we have in Europe. Apart of using the contact spray, I removed all black dust out of the engines and removed all debris. If you look at this recording, I believe I managed to get a smooth running machine.

Hoi Bruno,

Ik kan helaas het filmpje niet openen, maar goed dat het uiteindelijk in orde is gekomen met je Mallet!

De Mallet was een van m'n eerste ombouwprojecten jaren geleden. Ik heb ook het BR98 soundproject van ESU gebruikt. De functies zijn beperkt, maar je kunt via de Lokprogrammer naar hartelust functies en geluiden toevoegen, zo heb ik een automatische koppelhaak en ketelvuur toegevoegd, samen met een aantal geluidsfuncties.

Mocht je de Lokprogrammer en al zijn functies helemaal willen verkennen, deze tutorial van me legt je alles uit. Het is een lange opname maar dat komt door het vragenuurtje dat eraan hangt. Je kunt via de hoofdstukken ook snel naar een onderdeel wat je nodig hebt skippen. Veel succes! Bij vragen, laat het gerust weten. Ook altijd welkom in Lokeren!

For those of you who are interested, I also made a video about magnet activated sounds, so that you get the magnet activation behaviour just like the older LGB locomotives, but with the ESU decoders. You can find it below!

 

[bruno.degraeve]

Hoi Bruno,

Ik kan helaas het filmpje niet openen, maar goed dat het uiteindelijk in orde is gekomen met je Mallet!

De Mallet was een van m'n eerste ombouwprojecten jaren geleden. Ik heb ook het BR98 soundproject van ESU gebruikt. De functies zijn beperkt, maar je kunt via de Lokprogrammer naar hartelust functies en geluiden toevoegen, zo heb ik een automatische koppelhaak en ketelvuur toegevoegd, samen met een aantal geluidsfuncties.

Mocht je de Lokprogrammer en al zijn functies helemaal willen verkennen, deze tutorial van me legt je alles uit. Het is een lange opname maar dat komt door het vragenuurtje dat eraan hangt. Je kunt via de hoofdstukken ook snel naar een onderdeel wat je nodig hebt skippen. Veel succes! Bij vragen, laat het gerust weten. Ook altijd welkom in Lokeren!

For those of you who are interested, I also made a video about magnet activated sounds, so that you get the magnet activation behaviour just like the older LGB locomotives, but with the ESU decoders. You can find it below!

hoi Maxim,

Thanks for your reply and the links to your recordings. Both are valuable material and show how far you can go in programming the ESU decoders! Let me know when you plan to haven open days in Lokeren. I'm sure I'll block my agenda to give you a visit.

As I deleted the recording mentioned above, I've uploaded a recording of the almost finished conversion project (probably the steam chuffs haven't been fully adjusted at that time):