Connecting manual points

[Cyclone]

On my passing loop I d like to link the two points (peco g45). So that switching one, switches the other, as the peco ones are pretty poor at springing back. I know Bobg has had some success with springing them.
Anyone come up with a good way of doing it?
I am thinking about a couple of bell cranks and some rods (picked up the bell cranks this afternoon).
Also some thin steel rods but not enough, was gonna look at welding rod.

 

[MR SPOCK]

I am fiddling about using the control rods for model aircraft ​

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thes come in a tube and a rod with threads at one end the other ends could be joined together and do switching, its the latching locking movement i need to sort out I also use peco points, and want to add trailing switches to the layout and make it more automatic with less complication and less wiring
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[bobg]

Ed, I used 1/16" brazing rods as they don't rust (funny thing about brass that ), and bell cranks. I wanted mine to always return to the same side so for return springs I used the springs out of old floppy discs (Mrail's idea), and removed the Peco over-centre spring.

If you are manually operating, and just want them to work together then all you should need is a linkage.

I did experiment with operating two points with one motor but gave up when the linkage got too long and in the way so reverted to two motors linked electrically. I since came up with the idea that the motor should have been in the push/pull rod, not attached to one point.

 

[Cyclone]

I know the stuff, its quite thick. How have you joined it to the cranks and to other rods.
(whats 1/16 in new money..1.6mm?)
Thats quite thin. Also is rust a bad thing, looks more realistic?
Have you had use any runners (cant think of word for something that supports the rod)

 

[Tony]

Im genuinly interested why you need them connected i have just sprung mine so one is always straight on and the other on the turn. any train will push through and the point always returns to its set position forcing the next train back allways to travel down the same line. unless you are using your loop to something extra that should work automaticly all the time
i have a little station halt in the layby bit which is isolated so a train will run and stop at the station until i decide it should move.
The other train will always pass on the straight bit

The only thing i need to work out is how i can make both trains work indepentently on automatic shuttle
Tony

 

[MRail]

(whats 1/16 in new money..1.6mm?)

A little hair splitting... 1/16" equates to 1.8mm (for information only).

EDIT & CORRECTION
I am now reliably informed that 1/16" does in fact equate to 1.6mm
When I buy 1/16 brass rod, I'm offered the alternative of 1.8mm - confusing?

 

[Don Gilham]

Dumb question # 159 - where do you get the cranks from ?

 

[bobg]

See what happens when I go shopping on a Friday morning? All these questions.......

I'll try!

Bell-cranks are available from any aero modelling shop and so are the link-yolks that will connect to them to the welding/brazing rod (nominal 1/16" or 1.6mm is actually my error, I used 3.2mm). The rod will take a 3mm thread without the need to reduce the rod to 3mm (it's called tollerance in manufacture). I used stainles srung yolks as who knows wether the plastic ones will stand the constant UV.

The need for rod guides depends entirely on the individual situation i.e. the length of the longest rod.

Rust is personnal preference, I think the brass dulls down quite sufficiently (like rail).

Ed (and others) if you want to come over to look/test you know where I am.

 

[400Parker]

Ed,
This is what I've done on my railway to manually control two points at the same time. I use nylon bell cranks from Ripmax and 3/16" brass rod. The rod is connected to the bell cranks using clevises (also from Ripmax). If you (or anyone else) would like to contact me by PM or e-mail I can supply bell cranks at a good price.
Steve

 

[Cyclone]

This is what I have had in mind. Good to see it in pictures.
I have the bell cranks, found a new (to me) model shop in Birmingham (Mikes models, hes just started to do some 16mm stuff (off topic: bought accucraft couplings and qouted £30 to add a second servo to my ragleth on the regulator..very tempted just the warranty issue)

back on topic
Where do you get the rod from, the stuff i bought is 1.6mm (I got 1/16th=1.6mm off google) it cost about a quid a meter which is expensive. Unfortunately I need about 4 meters, hence the need for runners.
Not familiar with clevises, will they join two rods?
I have no way of adding thread...unless I take a trip to bobs, which I may well do.

Finally, my peco points just dont spring back, so giving up and going for manual control. I have to uncouple the loco anyway, so easy to flick a point. Just fed up with traipsing round a tree to flick the other one that hasnt sprung back.
Hopefully I can introduce a point lever near by.

 

[Don Gilham]

Dumb question # 160 - how are the rods connected to the clevises...clevii....clevis (plural).....

 

[Cyclone]

Just thought it may be possible to glue the rods/clevises together with epoxy resin. dont really fancy trying to braze with a blow torch.

 

[400Parker]

Well I bought a set of taps and dies. The clevises are M2.5, but the brass rod is a bit thick to run a 2.5 mm die down, so I usually open up the clevises to 8BA and die a thread on the brass rod to suit. In the past I've also soldered rod into the clevises but it means it's not possible to adjust them, which is necessary on long runs because the rod extends and contracts in the heat/cold.
I bought the brass rod from one of my suppliers. I had to buy quite a large quantity in metre lengths, but it's gradually all been used up. You could try "Click Metal" http://www.clickmetal.co.uk/ < Link To http://www.clickmetal.co.uk for brass rod. I've used them in the past for brass plate. The service was good and the prices seemed reasonable. The longer the length, the less you have to join!
The clevises are Ripmax part no. F-FK0004B (£2.15 for a pair) and the bell cranks are Ripmax part no. F-GPMQ3920 (£2.50 ea.). I have a few available at a lower price.
Steve

 

[Gizzy]

Any one tried doing this with 2 LGB points and one motor?

I have a few crossovers which I change using 2 motors from a single channel of a points decoder, but mechanical linking would save on a motor and look more interesting when operating!

Diagram explains what I mean.

Just curious....

 

[Cyclone]

Good point about the threads and adjusting....ahh this outdoor business is pain, already noticed how your track changes length.

Just looked at a tap and die set...I havent a clue what the sizes are: 3 x 0.5mm does this mean a 3mm diameter with 0.5mm pitch?
Are metric threads all the same?
So if I wanted a die for the above 2.4mm or 3.2mm rod what size should I be after?

 

[bobg]

Any one tried doing this with 2 LGB points and one motor?

I have a few crossovers which I change ussing 2 motors from a single channel of a points decoder, but mechanical linking would save on a motor and look more interesting when operating.!

Diagram explains what I mean.

Just curious....

Gizzy, yes I tried it and it wasn't too good because of the long distance between my Peco points, I also thought after that I should have mounted the motor in the long rod not on the point (so it push/pulled).

Ed, yes metric threads are measured by pitch in your case 0.5mm. but there are other pitches for courser or finer threads. I've had no trouble threading 3.2mm rod with a 3mm die but 2.4 down to 2mm is a bit tricky as the die tends to wander off from one side to the other as it runs down giving a wonbly thread which is sometimes usable, sometimes not!

As regards adusting I haven't had any problem to date with temp making any noticable difference as the rod and the track expand and contract at similar rates (perhaps another reason to use brass rod)

Welding/brazing rods are available from any welding supplier like B.O.C. and in small (to them) quantities.

 

[Cyclone]

Have you got a picture of your connections Bob?

 

[bobg]

Probably the best one Ed.

 

[400Parker]

Very nice Bob!
You can see on my second picture a combination of bell cranks to allow some compensation. I also rely on the spring in the Peco points to finish the throw so that they click into place. Having all the rodding too tight causes problems. A bit of slack ("play") in the system allows the Peco springs to work effectively.
There's some useful information - especially about compensation - on Peter Hayward's web site http://www.haggerleases.co.uk/build_ptrod.html (and lots of other interesting stuff besides).
Steve

 

[bobg]

I kept one of those 'slotty links' that Peco supply with the point motor bracket in the system just for that 'bit of slack' Steve.