compatability MTS MFX DCC

[meiningen8]

with the introduction of Maerklin MFX into the LGB MTS equation just what will control what and which items will be a total mismatch Will I have to junk the lot and start again or should I just move to O gauge now any clarification would be most helpfull as I stand here at the crossroads

 

[MTheStrong]

with the introduction of Maerklin MFX into the LGB MTS equation just what will control what and which items will be a total mismatch Will I have to junk the lot and start again or should I just move to O gauge now any clarification would be most helpfull as I stand here at the crossroads

I have just purchased a new CS2 with the 5 amp power supply as a replacement for my MTS 2. I have not as yet got it up and running. I have sent an email to Maerklin which covers what you looking for. I will post their reply in due course.

 

[muns]

MFX is an evolution by ESU/Marklin of the Motorola protocol and I am not sure if it is available to other manufacturers (and thus proprietary).

As long as the MFX decoder manufacturers keep backward compatibility with NMRA DCC then you should not have any issues, pre NMRA DCC systems (from the original Lenz DCC, such as MTS1) may be incompatible.

I cant really answer your "should I jump ship to O gauge" question because that all depends upon what YOU want, what you have now. Personally, I do not think that MFX will take over from NMRA DCC. NMRA DCC will evolve (eventually) and probably include some of the features found in MFX.

 

[Sammler]

pre NMRA DCC systems (from the original Lenz DCC, such as MTS1) may be incompatible.

This is one of the things that I was also worried about. I still have an MTS 1 system but don't want to replace it just so I can use Marklin LGB Digital loco's.

 

[MTheStrong]

This is one of the things that I was also worried about. I still have an MTS 1 system but don't want to replace it just so I can use Marklin LGB Digital loco's.

I appreciate that it is a difficult choice to make. I hope that the following information is of help to you. MTS1, as I understand it, only runs serial operations and is limited to 7 DCC locomotives and 1 DC locomotive. MTS 2 P, the upgrade from the original MTS 2, runs parallel operations with control of 22 DCC locomotives and 1 DC locomotive . The Maerklin CS 2 only uses Parallel and is not compatible with MTS 1 and the LGB 55020 chips and early versions of the LGB 55021 chip. In addition MTS 2 is limited to Functions 1 to 9, I will have to convert some of my older locos fitted with the 55020 chip and will probably use the equivalent Massoth chip.

 

[PhilP]

How much of 'the lot' you will have to 'junk', will partly depend on what 'the lot' already is, and what you want to control with it..

IMHO..
If you have MTS2 or less, then you need to thing about upgrading to 'something'.. - Possibly sooner, rather than later, whilst you can still sell it on for a reasonable amount.
As to what to replace it with:
I feel the jury is still out on the MFX as yet. - I do not think there is actually a 'large scale' product (central station) available as yet. Stand to be corrected!!

If you want a cheaper, possibly less powerful CS than the Massoth offering.. How about a Piko? - The software is Massoth, and it is (to all intents and purposes) 'son of MTS'. The Navigator handset even says 'Piko by Massoth' as it boots.

I would expect that as Marklin/LGB release more new products, there will come a time when you are not able to 'get at' every function from other kit.. At that point, you have to decide whether to go down the proprietary route, or buy analogue and fit / have fitted kit compatible with what you already have.

None of the existing stock will suddenly cease to work, AND there will be a market (support and products) for existing equipment for some considerable time.

 

[MTheStrong]

I feel the jury is still out on the MFX as yet. - I do not think there is actually a 'large scale' product (central station) available as yet. Stand to be corrected!!

I purchased the CS2 with the 5 Amp power supply because the staff at Maerklin recommended it as a direct replacement for my MTS 2 system. I needed to upgrade because I had recently bought the new KOF shunter and discovered that I could not access all the functions.

 

[meiningen8]

My current DCC system is a Massoth Dimax and Navigator my Locos are fitted with a mix of LGB MTS sound, Massoth sound and ESU sound decoders. I prefer to buy my stock ready fitted but am willing and have fitted various items with decoders and speakers. My main concern revolves around the compatability of the MFX system with DCC. I have no intention of ripping out the electronics in a Loco and replacing them with another chip from an alternative manufacturer. One of the joys of this hobby I find is to alter the CV values so that the loco mimics the real thing or at least in my eyes.

 

[PhilP]

I purchased the CS2 with the 5 Amp power supply because the staff at Maerklin recommended it as a direct replacement for my MTS 2 system. I needed to upgrade because I had recently bought the new KOF shunter and discovered that I could not access all the functions.

CS2 specifications state:

Technical Specifications
Power Output When Used with the 60052/60055 Transformer
Input voltage: 16 volts AC
Load: Train operating track 2.4 amps
Programming track 1.0 amps
Maximum 3.0 amps
Please take note of the specifications in the Help function for this unit so that you can make
full use of the total possible load.

It does not state what the track voltage is, but judging by screen-shots in the manual, it looks like 20 volts..?


It certainly seems to be a step-change up in functionality from 'pure' NMRA DCC. - I wonder how much is just a front-end, and how much is purely proprietary to Marklin?

 

[Railway42]

MTS1 and 55020 was made by Lenz the MTS2 and 3 plus 55021 etc are made by Massoth. Massoth make a full range of decoders for the G Gauge. I have not had a problem fitting any of their decoders and as such only use them. I read on this forum a lot of negative remarks on LGB not being 'pure' NMRA DCC so why follow a manufacturer like Marklin MFX ??? ??? ???

 

[ntpntpntp]

I read on this forum a lot of negative remarks on LGB not being 'pure' NMRA DCC so why follow a manufacturer like Marklin MFX ??? ??? ???

Because LGB is now owned by Maerklin, who are now fitting their own decoders (dual DCC/MFX capable?) into new LGB locos (not the Massoth-made MTS decoders) and selling/recommending their own digital command stations etc. So people are rightly concerned about where things are going, what's the future for their existing investment in MTS equipment and it's compatability with new LGB stuff they may want to buy. It seems highly likely that Maerklin will push more and more toward their MFX which is the current offering in their own long line of digital systems. MFX does indeed appear to have features not (yet) found in NMRA DCC.

Some folk feel comfortable sticking to one brand either through loyalty or because they believe it ensures compatability, so if the support that brand offers for their old equipment starts to disappear then it's unsettling, especially if they're also not comfortable with doing their own decoder upgrades etc. There are those who prefer to keep their models in the original state and don't want them modified.

Personally I'm not tied in to MTS (I run many different decoder brands with my NCE system), but I do have a couple of LGB locos with older factory-fitted DCC (fortunately parallel command capable).

A specific issue related to old LGB MTS: If there comes a point when you can't replace your MTS command station with another one which can send serial function pulses and you have an old loco which doesn't understand parallel functions then you'll just have to replace/rip out the old decoder if you want to maintain full functionality of that loco. (Though I thought it was possible to press function 1 multiple times at the right speed for an old decoder to recognise the presses as a serial function?)

 

[Railway42]

I under stand what you are saying but Maerklin produce a lot of their loco's without decoders fitted so no problem so far their decoder is as you say dual DCC/MFX capability.
LGB MTS2 and 3 is serial and parallel (switched with F-9) Massoth also serial and parallel. As far as Maerklin MFX they can try to push more toward their MFX but if we the enthusiast do not buy them then they will supply loco's without decoders as well. :-\ :-\

 

[MTheStrong]

CS2 specifications state:

Technical Specifications
Power Output When Used with the 60052/60055 Transformer
Input voltage: 16 volts AC
Load: Train operating track 2.4 amps
Programming track 1.0 amps
Maximum 3.0 amps
Please take note of the specifications in the Help function for this unit so that you can make
full use of the total possible load.

It does not state what the track voltage is, but judging by screen-shots in the manual, it looks like 20 volts..?


It certainly seems to be a step-change up in functionality from 'pure' NMRA DCC. - I wonder how much is just a front-end, and how much is purely proprietary to Marklin?

The powerpack that I bought is the Maeklin 60101 and is rated at 100VA/230 volts. It is described as a "switched mode power pack".

 

[Keith RhB]

I wouldn't lose too much sleep over their CS2 move with MFX--I can't see them removing the DCC compatibility. They haven't made a move in that direction in the smaller scales where they have been using them for quite a while. The loss of the LGB serial pulse ability was inevitable and as someone mentioned it's just a matter of changing decoders in those locomotives.
I'm running MTSIII with Massoth navigators and a mix of decoders; LGB, Massoth, Zimo and now the new Maerklin M1 in the Allegra, and I have to say I really like the new Maerklin sound decoder. It took me a long time to figure it out with their documentation (or lack thereof) but now I find that it performs very well at slow speeds, has excellent crisp sounds, and has no compatibility issues with my MTSIII. The problem as I see it is that these manufacturers are always looking for ways to one-up each other with some sort of benefit that you only get when you run their system. For example, the latest is with those new Massoth light panels, you can call up dozens of names from their list directly using binary state functions but only their central station supports that ability so far (although it sounds like it will be a new industry standard). At the end of the day as long as it works for you, don't worry, be happy. O0

Keith

 

[PhilP]

The powerpack that I bought is the Maeklin 60101 and is rated at 100VA/230 volts. It is described as a "switched mode power pack".

It has a 19V secondary at 100W according to the plate on it as shown in the documentation..
However, I think you will find the current output figures for the CS2 are correct.. It is the Central Station which will limit the current.

 

[stockers]

I think it would be a brave manufacturer who does not support NMRA DCC. Who (provided they realise) are going to buy a system that wont run most of the stock available on the new and secondhand market.
Is the CS2 really only 2.4 amp. That wont run a lot of G scale stuff will it?

 

[PhilP]

I think it would be a brave manufacturer who does not support NMRA DCC. Who (provided they realise) are going to buy a system that wont run most of the stock available on the new and secondhand market.
Is the CS2 really only 2.4 amp. That wont run a lot of G scale stuff will it?

My quote of 2.4 amps came from a download of the manual.. But it did also state 'guage 1 only' and specified two part numbers for transformers.. I still reckon the CS limits the current available. - Else how can it offer protection?
Aside: In the Massoth, you can set different current limits..

 

[HBBahn]

Looks like there is a booster, 60174, which uses the full 100VA of the switching PSU.

 

[PhilP]

Looks like there is a booster, 60174, which uses the full 100VA of the switching PSU.

So you need the CS2, the 100VA PSU AND the booster if you want to push more than 2.4 - 3.0 Amps then..
I guess that hardly makes it a cheap option..

 

[MTheStrong]

So you need the CS2, the 100VA PSU AND the booster if you want to push more than 2.4 - 3.0 Amps then..
I guess that hardly makes it a cheap option..

You do not need a booster to deliver the 5 amps . The figures quoted in your previous post relate to the use of the 60061, 3 amp power supply. The use of the dedicated 5 amp switched power pack, 60101, increases the power output to a maximum of 5 amps.. This information comes from the instructions supplied with the CS2. The shop in Hamburg that I purchased the CS2 from had a demonstration circuit and where happy to show the CS2 controlling 2 twin motor LGB diesels running at the sametime.