Climb Helical

morionds

I'm New, Please Be Gentle
image.jpeg Good evening,
I would like to build a new section in my railroad "Ferrovia del Ruscarolo" and I had the idea of making a helical ... this will definitely steeper than the 2.5% ... What do you think ? It's possibile ? Whatch this image :
 
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There are LGB 4xR2 - 1xR3 - 5xR1 - 1x 60 cm straight ... I could also use it only downhill
 
I've never attempted any kind of slope in g-scale - certainly not a helix, I can't ever imagine having enough space - but from my OO experience I would say make sure you have some level track before the points - if you have any kind of gradient just before a point you are going to get derailments.
 
it could be made to work but it is very steep.You have about 15 feet of track there and need to rise about 8 inches.. As Dave said above - you need to start your slope gradually - an abrupt kink near a change in direction will end up with derailments. So you are probably down to less than 12 feet.
That's a slope of 1 in 18. Workable down hill - extremely limiting up hill.

What sort of trains do you hope to run - long ones?
 
My friend gas Made a Climb with 1 complete ring of R1 and 1 30cm straight ... Ot isn't so nice ... Butta staiz with 2/3 wagons ride up ... boh am very doubtful ... Normally my trains are Made of 3/4 wagons zzz
 
I think a Stainz with two wagons could climb mount Everest! :nod:
 
Looking at your plan, if you were running anti-clockwise (left to right) at the bottom. it would be difficult.

If you were running left to right at the top of your plan, then it is entirely possible.

It all depends which direction you approach the spiral from.
 
The ground level is the 4 track station, the upper level is in the right of the picture ...
 
Have you considered crossings instead.
 
I can't crossing , if you see in the picture below, the extern line behind the Lok shed rise up ..

image.jpeg
 
Mmmmm steep gradients........ I have much experience with this little feature.
They do cause interesting challenges to be highlighted

I have about a 3ft rise over around 40ft which has a max 1:10 section (under a bush) in the middle. People do not believe me until they visit and usually say something along the lines ... WT*
This slope is due to the 'interesting' garden topography and a cutting or raising the other side of the layout etc was not a possibility (tree roots, stepped access onto lawn etc etc)).
I had thought about a helix as the ideal solution but it would mean that the lawn would be rendered out of action let alone getting across it to the decking, pond etc etc.

Having said this.... I did add a small spiral in an area where I had cleared a lot of bushes. I did this to add a bridge and a trestle for visual interest. Unfortunately the helix curve is a bit tight and the gradient is a bit steep (the helix rises 11 inches over the radius using a mix of R2 and R3) so a sumpter mallet can only pull a max of three cars unaided.

Although locos can make it up the main loop gradient on their own, it is only the geared ones like Shays, Heislers and Climaxes that can pull a decent length train without help.
So I have overcame it, first with double/triple or even quad headers and then later by also customising rolling stock by putting 'invisible' motor blocks in things like Stock cars, box cars and passenger cars.

It is interesting that in reality it is not the going up a slope that is the real problem (as applying extra oomph is the solution) but the coming down can be problematic as the force exerted by the weight of the rolling stock on couplings etc can cause derailments, especially if there is a curve after the downward gradient.
I have had to test my rolling stock and found that 'the lighter cars (wagons) had to be at the rear as they would 'buck off' the track at the curve.

If your locos are not free running (ie you cannot push them along the track without the wheels slipping) then putting one at the rear or middle of a train can act as extra 'muscle' and as a 'brake' (this is used in the real world). Diesel and electric models are the best as steamers tend to have pretty free running gearing (try pushing an LGB Mogul to see this), and they will just 'run away' down the slope.

So in a nutshell, if you are going to have to have a fairly rigorous incline, then do what has already been mentioned, no points near to either end of the slope, make the curvature as wide as possible, experiment with multiple loco power placement and test the reliability of rollingstock and you will be fine. .....

Trust me, I have been doing (what people told me) was the impossible for the last 10 years.
I have learned to add weight to cars that might cause problems and I have not broken any gearboxes ..... yet


2 angle of gradient.jpg

This shows the max gradient under the bush the RS3 diesel had one 'invisible' helper

gp 9 up slope long.jpg

At the summit. The GP9 had one 'invisible' helper

GP9 arbour long.jpg

The Sumpter Mallet approaching the 'manufactured' spiral

mallet exit tunnel 2.jpg

Sumpter mallet has done the helix and is about to clear under the bridge.

mallet about to go under bridge.jpg
 
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on my last layout i had one grade (straight) with 8%, and one curved (LGB-R1 and R3) of 7%.
a not altered Stainz could draw three LGB four wheeled passenger coaches up both sections.

test runs on my actual layout with some grades of 6% on straights and 5% on R1 curves show me, that a stainz plus a powered tender can draw six or seven of the above mentioned cars up the slopes.
 
Hi Korm... are those cars which your Stainz pulled up the 7%, twin bogied, metal wheeled and loaded or just shorties.
As I mentioned in my post above, my heaviest incline is 1:10 (roughly 10%) at its max.
Some of my diesels and a couple of the larger LGB steamers (sumpter and Uintah) can drag three or four heavy cars on their own but when I want a decent length train, it has to be either multi-heading or the use of my motorised rolling stock to get the extra oomph.

I have weighted the locos a little but I do not want to put even more strain on the gearboxes.

My Bachamann Shays and Climaxes, being geared and being pretty heavy already, can pull much more before their wheels start to slip.

I will have to get somebody to test a Stainz on my incline..... a little activity for next open day!
 
Thanks for your helpful replies !!
"Beavercreek" , your spiral wich radius is ? R2? Many Thanks, your photos have encouraged me!! :)
Francesco
 
Hi Francesco
For the spiral I used mainly R2 with a couple of R3 to fit the total curve to the space that was available.
Good luck with your own spiral!
 
I tried it with 10 foot diameter, after getting enough clearance between the tracks, it was terribly steep and would "stringline" cars.

helix3.jpg
 
Looks exciting though Greg.:)
 
Nice use of space Greg.
I don't experience the 'stringlining' of cars but my LGB R2 'spiral' helix is, in essence, just one complete circle, so maybe your one, being about one and a half circle could introduce more forces to pull off the cars.
Also, as the spiral is on my 'local line', the trains are not long ones (max four twin bogie cars or 7 skeletons) so perhaps they are not long enough to introduce the 'stringline effect'.
My 'main line' is another matter so no helix on that one.... just the tortuous incline for muscle power to overcome.
 
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