CLICKETY-CLACK .................

[hankbonaire]

Mine has a jumpers in various locations, areas where it is easier to do station, and out on the line which is roughly 300 ft ,where I thought necessary.
But having said that it's also fish plated a la prototype fashion at every joint, (Plates, tapped rail, and screwed together.) and copper greased.
I do use rail clamps on the pointwork, for ease of lifting for maintenance.

Still get the very occasional continuity issues, mainly in the loose screw dept on occasions.

I have also left a gap at each joint, a thin screwdriver blade tip, between the rail joints, not so much for the Clickety Clack, but for rail expansion in warmer weather.

Warmer weather, now there's an idea.

Thank you Nodrog ............... I am still working on a layout which I will post this month.

 

[korm kormsen]

I don't think I can stretch 250 feet of track without some bus and jumpers.

what do you plan to use as bus?
even the thickest household cable has much less "diameter" than a G scale rail. (or are you using alu or steel rail?)
the best/safest connection would be to connect the different track pieces soldered with 2mm jumpers. then the only remaining weak spots would be the turnouts/switches.
look at your layout. if you could reach the 125ft point from your main feeder, with a 50 or 60 ft bus-cable it makes sense in my eyes.
(or, if you plan to use many interruptions, like "slowdown" sections, or automatic stops with diodes, or other fancy stuff)

 

[hankbonaire]

what do you plan to use as bus?
even the thickest household cable has much less "diameter" than a G scale rail. (or are you using alu or steel rail?)
the best/safest connection would be to connect the different track pieces soldered with 2mm jumpers. then the only remaining weak spots would be the turnouts/switches.
look at your layout. if you could reach the 125ft point from your main feeder, with a 50 or 60 ft bus-cable it makes sense in my eyes.
(or, if you plan to use many interruptions, like "slowdown" sections, or automatic stops with diodes, or other fancy stuff)

Thank you korm ............ let me finish and post here my proposed layout .............. should be done this month ............... my concern is voltage drop over 60 feet ........... 250 feet of total continuous running ............. wire will be American romex no. 12 wire solid copper with smaller jumpers/feeders at 4 points. continuity will be with Massoth joiners at every joint ............. possibly insulated joiners at the 4 points for troubleshooting. 2 switches to storage tracks.

 

[Rhinochugger]

Thank you Rhino ............ I don't think I can stretch 250 feet of track without some bus and jumpers.

I have a 300 ft loop. I run DC. I have two feeds, approx midway around the loop. The cable that runs across the garden between the two feeds is 6.5mm2 cooker cable - so no voltage drop there

All my joints are either Hillman clamps (on LGB flexi track) or Aristo/Bachmann screwed fishplates. That said, LGB flexi is approx 3ft long, so there are less joints. I have approx 150ft of each type of track.

Now, if we think about it, having bisected, roughly, the 300 ft circuit, the elctrickery only has to flow 75 ft before it meets itself again coming from the other feed.

My track-powered locos are Bachmann tender locos with pickups on the tender wheels in addition to the loco wheels.

I had a visit from Neil (Riograndad of this parish) and he brought an LGB Sumpter Valley tender loco - it was only when he ran that loco that I discovered I had a disconnected point blade (the fixed part) on my USAT #6 point, because the LGB loco stalled whereas my Bachmann locos just chuntered across.

However, where the station area has three loops, I only insulate on track, and have ensured that the outside track of the outside loops is not the insulated one, thus the continuity is not compromised through the station loop.

The Bachmann locos don't draw many volts - approx 10 volts when running at a scale 25 - 30 mph, but I do regularly run two Bachmann Connies double headed.

The track had been down approx 8 years, and after last summer's building extension will be reduced to approx 270 ft.

I can only speak from experience

 

[Rhinochugger]

Thank you korm ............ let me finish and post here my proposed layout .............. should be done this month ............... my concern is voltage drop over 60 feet ........... 250 feet of total continuous running ............. wire will be American romex no. 12 wire solid copper with smaller jumpers/feeders at 4 points. continuity will be with Massoth joiners at every joint ............. possibly insulated joiners at the 4 points for troubleshooting. 2 switches to storage tracks.

It does depend on what you want to run.

If you're planning on running big USA lash-ups including USAT locos, then you may find that you need to ignore my previous post.

 

[hankbonaire]

I have a 300 ft loop. I run DC. I have two feeds, approx midway around the loop. The cable that runs across the garden between the two feeds is 6.5mm2 cooker cable - so no voltage drop there

All my joints are either Hillman clamps (on LGB flexi track) or Aristo/Bachmann screwed fishplates. That said, LGB flexi is approx 3ft long, so there are less joints. I have approx 150ft of each type of track.

Now, if we think about it, having bisected, roughly, the 300 ft circuit, the elctrickery only has to flow 75 ft before it meets itself again coming from the other feed.

My track-powered locos are Bachmann tender locos with pickups on the tender wheels in addition to the loco wheels.

I had a visit from Neil (Riograndad of this parish) and he brought an LGB Sumpter Valley tender loco - it was only when he ran that loco that I discovered I had a disconnected point blade (the fixed part) on my USAT #6 point, because the LGB loco stalled whereas my Bachmann locos just chuntered across.

However, where the station area has three loops, I only insulate on track, and have ensured that the outside track of the outside loops is not the insulated one, thus the continuity is not compromised through the station loop.

The Bachmann locos don't draw many volts - approx 10 volts when running at a scale 25 - 30 mph, but I do regularly run two Bachmann Connies double headed.

The track had been down approx 8 years, and after last summer's building extension will be reduced to approx 270 ft.

I can only speak from experience

Thank you Rhino ................ I have zippo experience and am making tables for my first proposed layout at the present time.
Biggest loco I will run is a DB IV BR 103 electric pulling only 2 passenger cars. I wanted 4 but they are 32 inches long.

 

[Rhinochugger]

Thank you Rhino ................ I have zippo experience and am making tables for my first proposed layout at the present time.
Biggest loco I will run is a DB IV BR 103 electric pulling only 2 passenger cars. I wanted 4 but they are 32 inches long.

I think that a lot of the talk about bus wires and individual connections stems from the use of LGB track with sliding fishplates and copper grease.

I would expect the Massoth clamps to provide as good continuity as the Hillman clamps.

From experience: when I first laid Aristo track in the previous house, I just laid it and screwed the fishplates and had no problems. When I got to this house, and was starting to build the new, larger line, I removed all the fishplates for cleaning (tracke ends and fishplates). What I found was that, after six years of use, when I took the fishplates off the 'factory' end of the rails, the brass was still shiny, yellow brass colour; it did not appear to have suffered much oxidation.

My conclusion was that the critical element is firm metal to metal contact - that seems to be all you need for normal use (I consider the concept of a three or four unit USA lash-up to be specialist use).

That set me on the path for simply using the screwed fishplates on the longer line. It's been down eight years, and latterly had one dodgy joint to my knowledge. I found out as i have a lifting bridge section, and if I didn't tighten the clamps quite hard, the trains would stop at a certain point. I didn't bother to trace the problem as I knew that I was going to lift the track near the problem area for the duration of the building works.

I will be re-laying the slightly shorter track over the next few months, so watch this space

 

[Paul M]

what do you plan to use as bus?
even the thickest household cable has much less "diameter" than a G scale rail. (or are you using alu or steel rail?)

Copper has different a power rating to brass. Most people tend to use 2.5mm cable, although there is any up to 10mm. Anything much bigger than that is probably being a bit silly.

 

[Rhinochugger]

Copper has different a power rating to brass. Most people tend to use 2.5mm cable, although there is any up to 10mm. Anything much bigger than that is probably being a bit silly.

Yup - I asked an electrical engineer to tell me what size would give me zero voltage drop using 18v over 75ft (for the old railway) and he came up with 6.5mm2 (Cooker cable)

Since that time I have been the chairman, secretary, finance officer and sole member of the Cooker Cable Club

Always open to new members

 

[hankbonaire]

Yup - I asked an electrical engineer to tell me what size would give me zero voltage drop using 18v over 75ft (for the old railway) and he came up with 6.5mm2 (Cooker cable)

Since that time I have been the chairman, secretary, finance officer and sole member of the Cooker Cable Club

Always open to new members

Nice to know ............... I have 100% bottled gas.
Question ...... I plan on using American Romex with 3 #12s (20 amps each) and a bare ground. If you were to twist 2 of these #12s together (20 +20) at each end, copper to copper and use the 3rd # 12 for the neutral, would you double the carrying capacity of the hot wires ??? ......... 40 amps hot and 20 neutral, plus strip the bare ground and use it for jumpers ??
Again, I work with wood .......... be nice.

 

[PhilP]

Nice to know ............... I have 100% bottled gas.
Question ...... I plan on using American Romex with 3 #12s (20 amps each) and a bare ground. If you were to twist 2 of these #12s together (20 +20) at each end, copper to copper and use the 3rd # 12 for the neutral, would you double the carrying capacity of the hot wires ??? ......... 40 amps hot and 20 neutral, plus strip the bare ground and use it for jumpers ??
Again, I work with wood .......... be nice.

Your current flows out, but also back again. - Round the whole circuit..

So, you are 'limited' by the single core.

If you are using this cable as your main feeder, you could use two cores for one side of the supply (positive) and the other core, plus the earth/shield, for the other (negative).

PhilP

 

[Northsider]

As has been picked up on by others here, I have larger rail gaps(!), anything up to a couple of mm is quite usual. I don't use track power: motive power is a mix of live steam and battery. My rolling stock has metal wheels, with secondhand wheels being picked up cheaply at shows. It all combines to give a very definite 'clickety-clack'!

If you zoom in you can see a rail joint between the loco and the first wagon. This is quite normal for my line, but probably not achievable -or desirable- when using track power!

 

[dunnyrail]

As has been picked up on by others here, I have larger rail gaps(!), anything up to a couple of mm is quite usual. I don't use track power: motive power is a mix of live steam and battery. My rolling stock has metal wheels, with secondhand wheels being picked up cheaply at shows. It all combines to give a very definite 'clickety-clack'!
View attachment 322652
If you zoom in you can see a rail joint between the loco and the first wagon. This is quite normal for my line, but probably not achievable -or desirable- when using track power!

Actually you can get away with near similar gaps for track power using the longer Massoth Track Clamps.

 

[hankbonaire]

As has been picked up on by others here, I have larger rail gaps(!), anything up to a couple of mm is quite usual. I don't use track power: motive power is a mix of live steam and battery. My rolling stock has metal wheels, with secondhand wheels being picked up cheaply at shows. It all combines to give a very definite 'clickety-clack'!
View attachment 322652
If you zoom in you can see a rail joint between the loco and the first wagon. This is quite normal for my line, but probably not achievable -or desirable- when using track power!

Thank you Northsider ................. beautiful locomotive .................. need a really small driver and fireman.

 

[hankbonaire]

Actually you can get away with near similar gaps for track power using the longer Massoth Track Clamps.

Thank you Dunny .......... I ordered the 19mm ones.

 

[Mike in Devon]

Thank you Rhino ............ I don't think I can stretch 250 feet of track without some bus and jumpers.

With a long main loop and a branch with a return loop at one end and a Wye at the other I have around 120 metres of LGB, Piko ànd Tenmille track mostly second hand and some of it very weathered. I started with joiners and jumpers but sooner changed to Massoth joiners that have been completely reliable with only one feed apart from the short return loop. In the set and windy Devon climate the jumpers were a regular source of grief so had to go.

I have seen Massoth joiners on some layouts with the joiners' screws on the outside and some on the inside. For aesthetic reasons all mine have the screws on the inside of the rail and a side benefit is that the rather coarse scale LGB metal wheel flange can just touch the screw heads can give a pleasantly metallic click clack. The ancient bucolic French chemins de fer departmental that inspire me didn't run fast enough for clickety just like our heritage railways today.

 

[hankbonaire]

With a long main loop and a branch with a return loop at one end and a Wye at the other I have around 120 metres of LGB, Piko ànd Tenmille track mostly second hand and some of it very weathered. I started with joiners and jumpers but sooner changed to Massoth joiners that have been completely reliable with only one feed apart from the short return loop. In the set and windy Devon climate the jumpers were a regular source of grief so had to go.

I have seen Massoth joiners on some layouts with the joiners' screws on the outside and some on the inside. For aesthetic reasons all mine have the screws on the inside of the rail and a side benefit is that the rather coarse scale LGB metal wheel flange can just touch the screw heads can give a pleasantly metallic click clack. The ancient bucolic French chemins de fer departmental that inspire me didn't run fast enough for clickety just like our heritage railways today.

Thank you Mike ........ I bought 100 Massoth 19 mm ............. won't be enough but a start ........... I'll still run a bus, PINK line on the plan with maybe 4 feeders total to Massoth connectors ............. a very short run about 12 feet ....................and screws on the outside.

 

[AustrianNG]

I have in excess of 500 feet of track. 98% Massoth rail clamps.
No bus or jump wires anywhere. This layout has been down for 5 years so far.
On the odd occasion I have a to “turn the screw” to preserve continuity on the two terminus lines, one up and one down the garden.
In some places I get the “clickety clack” of the metal wheels over the track joints, more by happy accident than by design.

 

[hankbonaire]

I have in excess of 500 feet of track. 98% Massoth rail clamps.
No bus or jump wires anywhere. This layout has been down for 5 years so far.
On the odd occasion I have a to “turn the screw” to preserve continuity on the two terminus lines, one up and one down the garden.
In some places I get the “clickety clack” of the metal wheels over the track joints, more by happy accident than by design.

View attachment 323057

Thank you for that info. I will of course try running without bus and feeders ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, no track laid yet. Plus, my layout is under a covered porch on the Leeward side so not much Wx.

 

[Paul M]

Thank you for that info. I will of course try running without bus and feeders ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, no track laid yet. Plus, my layout is under a covered porch on the Leeward side so not much Wx.

Don't forget it's not only continuity clamps help with, they also help keep the track aligned after expansion, or contraction