Circus Engine

[zman50]

I have obtained a LGB circus engine 24171. It may be from a starter set. The problem I am having is when I put this engine by itself (no cars behind it)on my oval track about 6'x24' and then put another starter set engine on the same oval by itself (no cars behind it), along with a starter set transformer 5003/110 they both run very very slow. If I take the circus engine off the oval and put a different starter set engine on then the two engines run fine around the oval. Could there be something electrically wrong with this circus engine? Looking for help to get this circus engine running properly. The circus engine by itself on the oval runs fair. Thanks

 

[PhilP]

Possibly the Circus engine is a little 'tired', and when you run it with another engine, you are drawing a little too much current from the controller, and it is being dragged down?

Which starter set controller is it?

Does the Circus loco look to be well used? - Wear to the plating on the wheels, generally looking as if it had a hard life?

Carefully remove the bottom plate of the motor-block. Does the grease, look as if it has gone hard and waxy?

Do the gears that are driven by the worm on the motor shaft look to be worn?

PhilP

 

[zman50]

Thanks Phil for the info. The controller is 5003/110. The engine wheels are not worn down and the gears have been cleaned and regreased. The gears are not worn.

 

[PhilP]

The 5003/110 controller is a very low power device..

It is labelled as 0-21V DC 7VA. Very crudely, 'VA' is equivalent to Watts (power).
Power(Watts) = Volts x Amps
Or,
Amps = Power / Volts
21/7 so 3Amps.

If the motor is a little tired, it could (when combined with another loco) be too much for your controller.

10-15 dollars should get you a decent meter, if you don't already have one, and this will allow you to see what the voltage feeding the track is, and to measure the current being used.

By comparing the Circus loco with your others, you can deduce whether it has a sick motor.

Greg might chip-in, to suggest a budget meter, if you do not already have one.

PhilP

 

[zman50]

I do have a meter. So do I set it to the lowest voltage and put one lead on one side of track and the other lead on the other side of track? How do I check the current being used? Thanks

 

[JimmyB]

The 5003/110 controller is a very low power device..

It is labelled as 0-21V DC 7VA. Very crudely, 'VA' is equivalent to Watts (power).
Power(Watts) = Volts x Amps
Or,
Amps = Power / Volts
21/7 so 3Amps.

If the motor is a little tired, it could (when combined with another loco) be too much for your controller.

10-15 dollars should get you a decent meter, if you don't already have one, and this will allow you to see what the voltage feeding the track is, and to measure the current being used.

By comparing the Circus loco with your others, you can deduce whether it has a sick motor.

Greg might chip-in, to suggest a budget meter, if you do not already have one.

PhilP

Phil, I know you are more "wigglies" than I am am but surely 21 V at 7 watt is 0.33 amps.

 

[Paul M]

Phil, I know you are more "wigglies" than I am am but surely 21 V at 7 watt is 0.33 amps.

Whoops

 

[PhilP]

It was late!

 

[zman50]

Surely there must be someone on this forum who has had the same issue with an LGB engine like this. Is it a sick motor like Phil has suggested or could there be a issue with wiring in the engine? I have run 3 engines on the same track with cars behind with one transformer 5003 and they get around ok. But this circus engine when put on the track with another engine just bogs both down to a crawl. Thanks

 

[Brixham]

Does this loco have a smoke element fitted? If so...turn it off...as it takes loads of power.

Malcolm

 

[JimmyB]

0.3 amp controller, I am surprised it run two locos!

 

[PhilP]

It does say 120VA rating for the device, and 7VA for the 16V AC output..

I don't think there is anything particularly 'clever' in these controllers?

This is why I run every loco, that passes my way, from my bench PSU..
I can see voltage and current, so get an idea of the state of the motor, and any other anomalies.

PhilP

 

[Fred2179G]

I am surprised it run two locos!

Me too. According to what I have read, a large scale loco will need 0.5 to 1.5A to operate properly, with more being needed if you add more cars. 0.33A is not going to do much.

The 2 starter set locos could have different motors and different amperage needs, hence the effect you note. The only way to find out is to use an ammeter and run each loco separately and together, noting the amp readings.

 

[ntpntpntp]

I do have a meter. So do I set it to the lowest voltage and put one lead on one side of track and the other lead on the other side of track? How do I check the current being used? Thanks

I think you need to be checking the current draw not the voltage. Consult your meter's instructions for how to measure current, but usually it will be a case of setting the meter to an "A" (Amps) setting and connecting it *in series* with the power to the track, NOT in parallel (across the track) as you do when measuring voltage.

Oh and when measuring voltages set your meter to the highest setting first, not the lowest - so you don't blow the meter by accident

 

[zman50]

Me too. According to what I have read, a large scale loco will need 0.5 to 1.5A to operate properly, with more being needed if you add more cars. 0.33A is not going to do much.

The 2 starter set locos could have different motors and different amperage needs, hence the effect you note. The only way to find out is to use an ammeter and run each loco separately and together, noting the amp readings.

How do I check the amperage, I have a multimeter do I just set it at lowest ohms and touch each side of the track?

 

[zman50]

I think you need to be checking the current draw not the voltage. Consult your meter's instructions for how to measure current, but usually it will be a case of setting the meter to an "A" (Amps) setting and connecting it *in series* with the power to the track, not in parallel.

Not much for electronics, so how do I connect the meter to the track? Thanks

 

[zman50]

Does this loco have a smoke element fitted? If so...turn it off...as it takes loads of power.

Malcolm

I checked the loco and the smoke element is off. Thanks

 

[ntpntpntp]

Not much for electronics, so how do I connect the meter to the track? Thanks

Disconnect one track feed wire from the power pack or disconnect from the track (whichever is easier) and connect the meter in series with that, maybe using crocodile clips or terminal blocks - whatever will work with your meter's probes? Most meter probes come with croc clip alternatives (or maybe screw-on clips) for the meter probes.

As I say, read the instructions for your meter - that should show you how.

Here's a page on how to measure current. For this purpose I would use the meter's "high Amps" setting ( eg. 10A?) not the 200mA setting they show connected to the probe in the illustrations.

Current Measurement Using Multimeter.

 

[Fred2179G]

how do I connect the meter to the track?

Like Nick says. The multimeter goes in one side of the feed to the track. You'll probably need a couple of crocodile clips to attach the end of the feed wire from the controller to the lead from the meter and from the other meter lead to the rail that you disconnected.. Then set the multimeter to 1 or 2 amps, or 10 amps if it can't be set to 2!

 

[zman50]

Disconnect one track feed wire from the power pack or disconnect from the track (whichever is easier) and connect the meter in series with that, maybe using crocodile clips or terminal blocks - whatever will work with your meter's probes? Most meter probes come with croc clip alternatives (or maybe screw-on clips) for the meter probes.

As I say, read the instructions for your meter - that should show you how.

Here's a page on how to measure current. For this purpose I would use the meter's "high Amps" setting ( eg. 10A?) not the 200mA setting they show connected to the probe in the illustrations.

Current Measurement Using Multimeter.

Ok I set my meter to 10A and hooked it up like you said. I tested 3 engines all from starter sets. One engine said ~.29 another said ~.33 and the problem circus one said ~.98. So I now have this information but I do not know what it means. Thanks