Changing sound on/off function key for LGB decoders

[Ralphmp]

I feel sure this has been asked before but I can’t find anything on it with the search function.

I use Massoth DCC to control my layout and one of its features is that sending an F8 command to a loco with a Massoth decoder halves the actual loco speed, giving you very precise control for shunting operations, etc. Unfortunately, LGB use F8 to turn sound on/off on their factory fitted decoders, so when an F8 is issued to one of these locos it promptly drops to half-speed. Not ideal.

So I wondered if anyone else has experienced this “feature” and whether there is a way to remap the LGB decoders so that sound on/off uses a different function key.

Thanks.

 

[idlemarvel]

Is it possible to be more specific about the sound decoder(s) in question? Any answer will depend on that.

 

[Greg Elmassian]

Actually, F8 is pretty much the standard for sound on/off world wide, I'd reprogram my Massoth decoders, but I guess if you have more Massoth than others....

Greg

 

[Ralphmp]

Thanks for the responses.

Dave - seems to be most LGB factory fit decoders including the latest MFX ones. Can't say on the 55021s as I've replaced any I had - all inherited with secondhand locos - with Massoth alternatives.

Greg - I was hoping to avoid going down the mass Massoth reprogramming route but it may be the least risky approach I guess as there seems to be much more info on their decoders than the LGB factory fit ones.

 

[PhilP]

Phil,
Give me an LGB model number, and I will have a look-see what I can suggest..

PhilP.

 

[Tanker man]

Hi
Have a look at CV 59, it can be set anywhere between 0 and 16, I have recently changed on of my loco decoders to 16 as I was always getting the same problem and my grandchildren questioning why the loco has gone 'slow" , not that difficult.
Dave

 

[Greg Elmassian]

I agree, now I always run 128 speed steps, so there is plenty of "control" when going slow. I suspect the "half speed" feature, which is also often called "shunting mode" is more helpful when running 28 speed step mode (or horrors! 14 speed step mode).

Besides F0 for lights, F1 bell and F2 horn/whistle, the next "most standard" F mapping seems to be F8 sound on/off.

Just my 2 cents.

Greg

 

[Ralphmp]

Phil,
Give me an LGB model number, and I will have a look-see what I can suggest..

PhilP.

Phil

Model 21429 (GE 4/4 III "Blick") is the one I'm working on at the moment.

Thanks

 

[Ralphmp]

So a bit of an update. It appears that if I only run LGB decoder equipped locos then all is well. The F8 key turns sound on and off as expected. If I run a mix of Massoth equipped and LGB equipped locos and do not issue a F8 “shunting speed” command to any of the Massoth equipped locos then F8 turns sound on/off ok on the LGB equipped locos.

The problem seems to start once a F8 command has been issued to a Massoth equipped loco when there are LGB equipped locos active on the layout at the same time. Any attempt to turn sound on/off on these locos via F8 halves their speed. I’m therefore thinking it may be a central station glitch or some option I've inadvertently selected.

For now, I can work round this with careful planning but I’ll keep investigating in case there is a cure.

Best wishes

 

[Greg Elmassian]

I re-read your post several times, to be sure of what you are saying.

What I get from it is F8 halves the speed on the Massoth locos... which it should... so there's no glitch in the command station, it's the difference between the decoders. It is the decoder who "decides" what to do with an F8, not the command station.

I think it's worth a try to reprogram the Massoth decoders to use F8 for sound/mute instead of the default of "shunting speed".

Your alternative is to not send F8 to the Massoth locos, but use the correct F function for them. You indicate that some/all the Massoth locos have an MFX decoder, which puts some additional work, but if you got the right template to reprogram them, you could use the service tool if you are worried about doing it "manually".

Greg

 

[PhilP]

This is an interesting one..

I am wondering if there are specific 'words' (to use a term non-programmers will understand) for either "shunting-speed" or "toggle-sound-on-off", as well as for "toggle-F8". - Lies to Children, but it gets the concept over..

I wonder if the Massoth CS is sending BOTH a "toggle-F8" and a "shunting-speed" command? - Massoth CS have 'form' in doing more / 'what Massoth expects'..


I would need to go to the standards for this, and at the moment, do not have the time, unfortunately.. - I also need to get a 'DCC display tool', which can sit across the signal, and tell me what is going on..

 

[Greg Elmassian]

no matter if it sends just F8 to the selected loco, or if it sends a separate shunting command also (which I doubt) it still should only affect the selected loco, so I am confused with the references to other locos on the track at the same time, should make no difference.

Is there such a thing as a Massoth "shunting command"? Clearly there is no NMRA command specifically for shunting speed.... maybe the throttle is set to different max speed limits? Sounds like a mess if that happens.

Where's the Massoth experts?

greg

 

[idlemarvel]

There is no special Massoth shunting command. By default F8 is assigned to set shunting speed on/off which halves the speed of the loco. You can set this to another function key or turn it off. Maerklin mfx decoders have a similar feature except you can choose half or quarter speed; I can't remember if they have a default key for that or not. Massoth sound decoders use F6 by default for sound on/off. You can change this to whatever you want. I don't believe Massoth are doing anything non-standard here, they have some conventions which may be different to those adopted by others.

 

[PhilP]

I must admit, it seems strange behaviour?
As you say, except for a 'stop', only the decoder who's address is selected should respond to the command. - So unless all the loco's are set to the same address, then only one loco should respond.

 

[Ralphmp]

Just to clarify, if I send F8 to a particular Massoth equipped loco it behaves exactly as expected - speed halves. However, no other locos are impacted at the same time by the F8 command.

The "glitch" happens if I later send F8 to a specific LGB equipped loco to turn sound on/off - the loco speed halves. Sorry if I didn't explain this correctly before.

As I've got both my SPROG and Massoth Tool set up at present I'm going to adopt Dave's suggestion and reset the Massoth loco decoders to use a different F key to activate the half-speed function. Hopefully won't take too long and it avoids messing with the LGB MFX decoders for which I only have limited CV data.

 

[Railway42]

Massoth Service tool general CV values for XLS and LS is F6 sound ON/OFF F5 Loco startup/shutdown. But all F keys can be defined by the programmer.

 

[Greg Elmassian]

Phil's response seems to indicate a possibility I mentioned in post #12.

Hypothesis: Massoth system sends shunting command upon F8 to Massoth locos, they run in "shunting speed"
Massoth system changes throttle speed control when sending F8 to non-massoth locos.

I can see this could be technically possible, but what a mess it could make.

I have a question for you Phil:

You said:
Just to clarify, if I send F8 to a particular Massoth equipped loco it behaves exactly as expected - speed halves. However, no other locos are impacted at the same time by the F8 command.

The "glitch" happens if I later send F8 to a specific LGB equipped loco to turn sound on/off - the loco speed halves. Sorry if I didn't explain this correctly before.

So, after that second step, does the LGB loco sound go off also, or is just the speed of the LGB loco affected?

(the thinking is did the F8 sound on/off get to the LGB loco, or did something else happen)

Greg

 

[Ralphmp]

Greg, good question. Pretty sure sound didn’t go off but I’ll do some more testing and confirm.