Catenary

[CharlieBear]

Thinking of investing in some LGB tram type catenary, now the wires are 680mm long has anyone experience can the arms be spaced that far apart (on straight track) without too much movement when the loco passes? obviously on bends they will be much closer.
Also does the overhead wire attach to the arm using connector clips or just bnd the wire? If anyone has a closeup picture please? I suspect the clips are only for use with the modern RhB style masts?
Thanks in advance

 

[dunnyrail]

Thinking of investing in some LGB tram type catenary, now the wires are 680mm long has anyone experience can the arms be spaced that far apart (on straight track) without too much movement when the loco passes? obviously on bends they will be much closer.
Also does the overhead wire attach to the arm using connector clips or just bnd the wire? If anyone has a closeup picture please?
Thanks in advance

If you are getting the LGB Catenary then the wire does indeed clip into place in inverted u shapes clips. have a look atnthis thread.

Installing LGB catenary

Some members have asked me to write this up. I couldn't decide whether to add it to the electric loco thread or new layout thread, so in the end I thought I would start a new thread with some thoughts on adding overhead wires to my indoor layout. As some of you may know, there are two types...

www.gscalecentral.net

 

[Madman]

You may have to dip into your retirement funds.....

 

[idlemarvel]

Thinking of investing in some LGB tram type catenary, now the wires are 680mm long has anyone experience can the arms be spaced that far apart (on straight track) without too much movement when the loco passes? obviously on bends they will be much closer.
Also does the overhead wire attach to the arm using connector clips or just bnd the wire? If anyone has a closeup picture please? I suspect the clips are only for use with the modern RhB style masts?
Thanks in advance

I think the thread dunnyrail listed will tell you most of what you need to know. As reported in that thread the catenary wire by itself droops a little at full length in my experience, probably less than a mm but you can see the movement as the train passes under the wires. On R1 bends you're probably limited to 450-500mm max length, once you get to R3 you can probably run full length. (If you're running RhB stock then R1 is not a good idea, but that's another story.) The clips are the same on the "modell" (RhB style) masts and "ordinary" (street-car) masts. As Madman says if you plan to buy new you might be unpleasantly surprised by the cost. Don't forget you need a base for every mast.

 

[CharlieBear]

Hi Dunny,

That link is for the modern stuff, I'm looking to use the tramway arms.

Hi Madman,

Line not too long so should not be too bad (fingers and legs crossed)

 

[Rhinochugger]

As reported in that thread the catenary wire by itself droops a little at full length in my experience, probably less than a mm but you can see the movement as the train passes under the wires.

Isn't that what happens in 1:1 land?

As do trains drivers forgetting to lower the pantograph where the power changes - hence a sign on Thameslink reminding drivers to drop their pants

 

[idlemarvel]

Isn't that what happens in 1:1 land?

Not quite, they have the supporting catenary wire above from which the almost perfectly horizontal live wire hangs. I was referring to the situation in the model where you don't have the supporting catenary wires, which are an added expense and complication, but more realistic.

 

[CharlieBear]

Ah just found this after much Googling I had it all the time!

 

[CharlieBear]

question still remais how much will the wire bend in the middle of a 680mm run with a panto pressing up?

 

[idlemarvel]

Hi Dunny,

That link is for the modern stuff, I'm looking to use the tramway arms.

Hi Madman,

Line not too long so should not be too bad (fingers and legs crossed)

I think you'll find a lot of the info on installing catenary in that link applies to both kinds of masts.

FYI you can't use the catenary hanging wire part no 56202 with tramway masts, only "modern" (modell / RhB) masts

 

[ebay mike]

question still remais how much will the wire bend in the middle of a 680mm run with a panto pressing up?

Just out of curiosity are you intending to put power through the catenary or is it going to be purely cosmetic?

 

[idlemarvel]

question still remais how much will the wire bend in the middle of a 680mm run with a panto pressing up?

That will depend to some extent on the strength of the spring pushing the pantograph up.
Under it's own weight the wire will droop about 1 mm, if you tamed the upward pantograph spring you could probably contain the upward movement to 1-2 mm but it will never be zero with a full 680mm run.

 

[CharlieBear]

Hi purely cosmetic I run DCC

 

[ebay mike]

Hi purely cosmetic I run DCC

Me too. If you're not in a hurry I can dig some out and set up a short display for you to judge for yourself. It could take a few days to locate everything including a couple of locos though.

 

[SevenOfDiamonds]

The Whiteleaf Railway/Tramway is an exhibition layout that uses LGB "tram-style" catenary arms, in most places mounted on LGB posts and in others, on different posts (Pola telegraph poles, I think).

The horizontal crosswire on old style arms had no brass "shoe" (is that the right terminology?) and you just hooked the wires on, as in your photos. The later arms include the brass "shoes" and the wires just slide into the shoes (two slots for where wire-ends meet). On Whiteleaf we don't use LGB wires, we use Peco Code 75 rail (upside down), the foot of which is a perfect fit for the slots in the "shoe". This gives greater rigidity (both for running and when we remove the catenary for transport). . . but we still remove one of the two springs on LGB pantographs to reduce the upward force on the wire (rail).

You may know some or all of this . . . but I thought these observations might help you explore the topic further.

All the best

David

 

[CharlieBear]

Hi Mike and David,
Thanks I think David answers my question, I'll loosen the spring tension on the panto if the upward movement looks bad

 

[Tropic Blunder1]

Have a read through Melbournesparkes' thread on this forum for budget overhead (that is powered, 30V if I remember correctly) i can vouch for smooth running on his system.

 

[phils2um]

Hi CharlieBear,

Beware! The instructions you show in post #8 is the old LGB Tram Catenary.

The currently made stuff, LGB #56405, Standard Catenary Mast, does have the same clip to hold the figure 8 cross-section contact wire as the #56301, Model Catenary Mast. What Jon pointed out in Post #2 Edit added: and David above is absolutely correct. . Check the current catalog. The new style has been made at least since 2006 which is the oldest catalog I have handy. The old style #6000 masts are not compatible with the more prototypical figure 8 x-sec wire which is the only wire now sold by Märklin/LGB.

Be very careful to make sure that what you are getting is what you expect if you buy second hand off Ebay or even "New old Stock" from a retailer. I bought a package of Standard Catenary Mast Arms that were on sale from Trainworld. I was expecting to get the newer LGB# 56402 arms. Instead it was a package of the old style #6000/2 arms shown in the instructions you have. They were useless to me but not worth the effort or cost to return.

 

[phils2um]

By the way, If you can find the old #6000 masts cheap enough it might be worthwhile to just replace the arms with the new #56402 arms if you want to use the figure 8 wire or even the Peco code 75 rail mentioned by David if in Post#15. When you add the cost of the new bases and masts together it could make sense. The old masts included the bases.

Edited to correct spell guesser.

 

[phils2um]

Isn't that what happens in 1:1 land?

I've seen contact wires pushed up by the pans of passing trains in the 1:1 world even though the contact wire is normally kept level by wire attachments to the suspension cable. After all, the wire is being suspended, not being held in place (except at the masts)!