Can the Massoth 1200Z (or MTS) feed two or more seperate unconnected sections at once?

[beavercreek]

I am about to embark on converting one section of my layout to have the option of DCC (with a DPDT switch for DC/DCC operation). Will the 1200Z be able to also run the other two distinct separate sections of my layout if I choose.
I want to keep the sections separate, as they are now, so that they can be controlled by DC when I wish (visiting locos, non-chipped locos etc etc.)
If I do give the other two sections the option of switching in DCC, I was thinking that parallel connections to each section from the 1200z would be the order of the day. I realise that the power will be divided accordingly but just wanted to check that the central station was fine and dandy 'sharing' its output, both power and also DCC signal.
I have though about the option of 'temporarily' connecting the three sections together when using DCC so that there would only need to be one feed from the 1200Z but this could be forgotten about and obviously lead to problems when DCC is switched out and DC is switched in.

 

[Zerogee]

Hi Mike -

I'd do it like the traditional "cab control" method commonly used for the smaller scales on analogue DC - each section of the track is connected to a double-pole multi-way switch (commonly a rotary wafer switch when dealing with smaller indoor scales, you may need something more beefy for G scale!) so that the common side of the switch goes to the track, and the switchable outputs of the switch go to the various controllers and/or methods of control. This means that any or all sections of track can be switched on to any of the available controllers, but it is impossible for one track section to be connected to multiple control/power sources simultaneously. Does that make sense?

Theoretical example: say you have three track sections A, B and C, and two controller/power sources, 1 and 2. Each track section has a single feed to it, with a rotary switch that can connect it to EITHER source 1 OR 2, but not both together. So, you could switch tracks A and B to source 1 (say the Massoth DCC) and leave track C on source 2 (the DC controller), or any other combination, but it is impossible to switch any track section to both sources 1 and 2 together thus avoiding any risk of power supply accidents.

Jon.

 

[Gizzy]

As Jon says Mike.

Sometimes, even with Digital, you need a bit of Analogue kit like a DPDT switch....

 

[ntpntpntp]

Must admit I wired up my line as if for analogue, with section switches, even though it runs dcc 99% of the time unless a visitor brings something round to play with.

As has been posted already, you should use double pole switches, not common-return wiring. If possible I'd recommend that where the DC and DCC tracks might physically connect you make sure there's a separate section a yard or so long, that can be totally switched off while you're running a mixture of power sources. If a loco should accidently run into that section it will simply stop and not bridge over to the other power source.

 

[beavercreek]

Many thanks for the input fellows.
You have confirmed my initial thoughts.
My three sections are at the moment totally electrically separate.
Two sections will have the option of being connected together and I have already created the 'either/or' switching system for this when using DC power so that only one sections power is utilised when the two sections are connected.

The two sections, that will have the option of interconnection, have 'shuttle' sytems at the moment.
I have already used DPDT switches for switching in and out, the 'shuttles' so that I can apply pure power control from the TE receivers when I need to. The shuttles will also obviously be switched out for DCC as they cannot operate with DCC

When the DCC is used I will still want to keep the possibility of totally 'separate' sections but also have the DCC supply coming from the one source.
The two sections that will have the combining option will have the cabling from the DCC source correctly wired to the same rails for when they are both connected to each other. This second cable connection will be then be just like another feed.

I was going to use a bank of good, internally lit, DPDT switches for the DCC/DC switching option but Jon, your rotary switch sounds good but as it will have to be fairly beefy as it will have to handle 22v at up to 12amps (you know my propensity to run three or four USAT locos on one line while the other lines have a loco each running as well).

What I do need to confirm is that....If the 1200Z is connected to the three electrically separate sections and I am using the wireless Navigator...will I be able to control DCC locos on the three individual sections from the one Navigator just as if they were being controlled on just one section.

 

[Zerogee]

Mike - I think the answer to your last question is yes, you should be able to control them all with no problem - because if the selector switches are all set to the "Massoth" position then the three sections WILL be electrically connected together, at the switches - the fact that they are not connected at the actual rails shouldn't make any difference at all, there will still be an electrical path connecting them all into one power section, and the Massoth should treat it as such.

I'm 98% sure I'm right about this, maybe Nick or Gizzy could confirm 100%?

Jon.

 

[ntpntpntp]

What I do need to confirm is that....If the 1200Z is connected to the three electrically separate sections and I am using the wireless Navigator...will I be able to control DCC locos on the three individual sections from the one Navigator just as if they were being controlled on just one section.

The DCC system won't know / doesn't care, you'll just have the 3 sections wired in parallel so it'll just be one big layout as far as the hardware is concerned.

 

[beavercreek]

EXCELLENT!!
Many thanks go to you Nick and Jon for reaffirming that I have some solid knowledge when confronting things electrical....now to get it all wired up!
At the moment the DC stuff (Arito Crest 13 amp power with three receivers with two shuttles) is wired for siting outside (under cover of course).
BUT the new site is going to be inside the conservatory, so there has to be extensive cabling laid and hidden to get to the three section as the original site was very close to all three sections but the conservatory isn't....oh well onward and upward.....this hobby just seems to steal more and more time whenever I think about another thing to do!

 

[Zerogee]

No problem, Mike, glad to help (and it's always better to get things confirmed by two or three people rather than just trusting one suggestion!). Good luck on the cable-laying (oo-er....).
For rotary switches, I'm sure you could find something rated for mains domestic or light industrial use that would handle the kind of power you need it to... though if you've only got the two power source choices to worry about (DC and DCC) then ordinary DPDT switches should do fine - ones with a centre-off position would also allow you to completely isolate any track section from all power too if needed (and would give you another "emergency stop" option besides the buttons on the Navigator).

Glad to hear that the Massoth gear you bought will be seeing some good use! Once you've over here in the Dark Side, it's not quite as dark as you first thought....

Jon.

 

[ntpntpntp]

Just one little (probably obvious) suggestion: to make sure you've got your parallel wiring correct, test using DC first and make sure the trains go in the correct direction when crossing from one section to another.

 

[teddytejero]

I believe you need a booster for any independant section you add to your layout. You can connect an old LGB 55090 booster or a Massoth booster. The electric feed is no problem but the digital pulses are. Read first the 1203B manuel pls. The module has 3 independant circuits each 4 amps

 

[Zerogee]

I believe you need a booster for any independant section you add to your layout. You can connect an old LGB 55090 booster or a Massoth booster. The electric feed is no problem but the digital pulses are. Read first the 1203B manuel pls. The module has 3 independant circuits each 4 amps

As far as I understand it, the only reason for needing a booster is if you need more total power than the 12 amps that the 1200Z will deliver - for example if you had two trains drawing a massive 8 amps each (multiple heading locos, lots of lights, smoke, sound etc - like you do, Mike!) then the 1200Z couldn't handle it alone - but if you split the layout into two blocks and used the 1200Z on one block and the booster on the other, you could theoretically run up to 12 amps on EACH block. If you're not going to need this much power, then I don't believe there is any need for a booster, even if your track is divided into blocks - provided that all the blocks you are using are switched to the 1200Z.

Jon.

 

[Sandy]

Hi Mike, just a bit of additional info gleaned from experience, I have never needed a booster yet and have several hundred yards of track, and run big locos , long trains,with sound,smoke,lights etc...I always thought I would cross that bridge when I came to it. No need as yet.
One of the lovely bonuses of the Massoth system is you can run an analogue loco on it as well for the odd loco you dont chip or the odd visitors unchipped ones.