Battery power RC with Zimo or ESU chips?

[PaulRhB]

Has anyone done a rc conversion using a Zimo or ESU chip running on batteries? I've been asked to do one for a friend and been looking at the Deltang based RCtrains one with a 14v strikalite battery as a possibility. Is 14v good enough and are lipo's a better idea.
I've done deltang setups but just want to see if there are any issues or best solutions to the choice of batteries.
Thanks

 

[Zerogee]

14 volts should be enough - but you'd get a lot more capacity and running time with a 14.8 volt Li-ion pack like one of these:
Ansmann 2447-3035-01 Battery Pack Li-ion 4S2P 14.8V 5200mAh
...or if that's a bit big and/or expensive, you can go with a 2600 mAh version:
Ansmann 2447-3032-01 Battery Pack Li-ion4S1P 14.8V 2.6Ah Inline

Jon.

 

[PaulRhB]

Thanks Jon that's exactly the sort of recommendation I was hoping for

 

[Tony Walsham]

Hi Paul.
How do you propose interfacing the Deltang Rx with the DCC decoder?

 

[PaulRhB]

Just simply powering it up as if by dc track. He just want the option to run it on friends live steam lines and isn't after full dcc functionality.
I'm thinking of putting it all in a van and just adding a track/ battery switch on the loco so the rc van can power any of his locos.

 

[Zerogee]

Thanks Jon that's exactly the sort of recommendation I was hoping for

I've used both of those packs in my multi-power loco experiments, and can recommend them highly - a lot of power in a relatively small package, and fully protected by built-in circuitry against overcharging or over-discharging - they're not cheap, but they are reliable industrial-quality packs that you can feel confident about permanently installing in a loco with facility for onboard charging. You can get a matching Ansmann charger from the same supplier:
Ansmann 9C94212-01 Charger Li-ion 14.8V 2A

The one thing you might have to consider is adding something between the RC speed controller output and the decoder that will convert the PWM output of the speed control into smooth DC - I think this can be done though I can't recall the name of the device that does it - a PWM input may well make the decoder throw a wobbly......

Jon.

 

[Rhinochugger]

Has anyone done a rc conversion using a Zimo or ESU chip running on batteries? I've been asked to do one for a friend and been looking at the Deltang based RCtrains one with a 14v strikalite battery as a possibility. Is 14v good enough and are lipo's a better idea.
I've done deltang setups but just want to see if there are any issues or best solutions to the choice of batteries.
Thanks

Paul, I looked into Li-on / Li-po technology, and from my point of view, the necessary manual intervention in the charging regime rather put me off - the need to occasionally balance multiple cells was too much for my single sell brain.

I've recently done the MDC hustler, and the guy at Strikalite recommended a Nimh battery pack to suit the space I had available. I'd never heard of the cell size before, but I've got 9.6v (for an Essel chassis) at 1500 mAh which should be fine. So, where space is a problem, it's worth talking to the battery boys.

I'm not especially loyal (except to my wallet) so I use Strikalite or Vapextech - both very good.

 

[PaulRhB]

Thanks all, this is for a friend so he will make the final call. I'm just making sure the options will work

 

[PaulRhB]

The one thing you might have to consider is adding something between the RC speed controller output and the decoder that will convert the PWM output of the speed control into smooth DC - I think this can be done though I can't recall the name of the device that does it - a PWM input may well make the decoder throw a wobbly......

Ah thanks for the warning, anyone know what that would be?

 

[PhilP]

I doubt you will have a problem with the PWM output from the Deltang kit.. - Not 100%, as not used it myself with Zimo or ESU..

The PWM frequency is user-programmable on the Deltang, so if there is a problem it can be tweaked..

If you can run to two extra wires to the loco.. You could use outputs from the Deltang to trigger a couple of the sounds, if your client wants that.

 

[Tony Walsham]

Crest used to make a PWM to Linear Converter.
Long since sold out.
As a rule, many DCC makers caution against using PWM to power a DCC decoder as a DC power source.
The PWM waveform looks similar to a DCC signal and some decoders can get their brains screwed up.

I have powered DCC sound decoder equipped H0 locos with a Viper ESC and it didn't "confuse" the DCC equipment.
I also tried a PWM to Linear converter and low speed performance was nowhere near as smooth as straight PWM.

 

[Tony Walsham]

Phil.
How do you connect the trigger outputs of a Deltang Rx/ESC to make a the sounds play in a DCC sound decoder?

 

[Zerogee]

Paul, I looked into Li-on / Li-po technology, and from my point of view, the necessary manual intervention in the charging regime rather put me off - the need to occasionally balance multiple cells was too much for my single sell brain.

..............

If you buy a good quality internally-protected lith-ion pack like one of the ones I suggested above, with a suitable charger, there is no manual intervention needed at all. In my 2095 BoBo, which uses one of the 8-cell ("4S2P") 5200mAh packs, I have a JST connector on a flying lead curled up on the floor of the rear cab; to charge, I pull this lead out of the cab door and connect it to the charger lead, and plug the charger in. The light on the charger goes red, and it starts to charge.... when it's finished, the light goes green and the charging stops. As that annoying Meerkat says, simples......
Not that I actually have to charge it that often - there is so much capacity in the pack, and the two new Buhler motors in the loco (I replaced both during the refurbishment because I had one duff motor) draw so little current that I reckon I'd get something like ten hours of continuous running from it!

Jon.

 

[Rhinochugger]

If you buy a good quality internally-protected lith-ion pack like one of the ones I suggested above, with a suitable charger, there is no manual intervention needed at all. In my 2095 BoBo, which uses one of the 8-cell ("4S2P") 5200mAh packs, I have a JST connector on a flying lead curled up on the floor of the rear cab; to charge, I pull this lead out of the cab door and connect it to the charger lead, and plug the charger in. The light on the charger goes red, and it starts to charge.... when it's finished, the light goes green and the charging stops. As that annoying Meerkat says, simples......
Not that I actually have to charge it that often - there is so much capacity in the pack, and the two new Buhler motors in the loco (I replaced both during the refurbishment because I had one duff motor) draw so little current that I reckon I'd get something like ten hours of continuous running from it!

Jon.

Ah, I understand. Due to the constraints of the loco size, I was having to look at using two or three individual cells rather than a ready-made pack.

As long as you stick to the ready made stuff, it's a lot simpler, agreed

...............but for some reason, I rarely seem to end up doing simple ........................... which is quite strange for a simple person

 

[Zerogee]

Ah, I understand. Due to the constraints of the loco size, I was having to look at using two or three individual cells rather than a ready-made pack.

As long as you stick to the ready made stuff, it's a lot simpler, agreed

...............but for some reason, I rarely seem to end up doing simple ........................... which is quite strange for a simple person

Heh! Yes, I would never want to mess around with individual lith-ion cells and home-brewed setups without built-in protection boards, that way lies madness (and possibly death by fire....) - but buy decent properly made commercial packs and you shouldn't have any trouble with them.

Jon.

 

[Rhinochugger]

Heh! Yes, I would never want to mess around with individual lith-ion cells and home-brewed setups without built-in protection boards, that way lies madness (and possibly death by fire....) - but buy decent properly made commercial packs and you shouldn't have any trouble with them.

Jon.

Irrespective of protection - which is a must - there is sometimes a call for using a combination of individual cells. GeRik of this parish is the expert

 

[Zerogee]

Irrespective of protection - which is a must - there is sometimes a call for using a combination of individual cells. GeRik of this parish is the expert

Oh yes, I accept the requirement for using them in certain small-space installations - I'm just saying that I wouldn't feel confident in wiring them up myself!

Jon.

 

[Rhinochugger]

Oh yes, I accept the requirement for using them in certain small-space installations - I'm just saying that I wouldn't feel confident in wiring them up myself!

Jon.

Nor me, but it can be done by those wot know

 

[dunnyrail]

Paul,
As you are putting the gubbins in a Van have you looked at the recent thread aboutbthe Aristo DCC Battery DRC System? Well worth looking into.

 

[Zerogee]

Paul,
As you are putting the gubbins in a Van have you looked at the recent thread aboutbthe Aristo DCC Battery DRC System? Well worth looking into.

Just for the avoidance of confusion, that's the Revolution DCC gear - I don't think they are known as Aristocraft any more, since Aristo is pretty much dead...... but do check the battery power thread for the recent discussion on the new Revo system.

Jon.