Ballenburg Query what is this for?

dunnyrail

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Hi I hope that someone can give me a little help on this. I have a Ballenburg LGB Ref 20471. It has Direct Decoder and I fitted one OK. I subsequently wanted Sound for it and got a Massoth XLS Sound Decoder with the view of replacing all the LGB kit and driving the loco with the Massoth one. Then when I took off the body I noticed this:-
922110194c824a94a20e45f20af19755.jpg

The second Picture shows the position of this Electrical Gizmo within the loco and my (not very subtle) way of wiring in the Massoth Chip via the Brown and White wires connected into the loco via a Chock Block.
12a73b33e5474df9a33c24a981521ec6.jpg

My reason for wanting to change to the full Massoth chip operation is to get the lights in full order which they are not now, plus I feel that to have two chips is just wasteful. I also hope to get rid of all the LGB Board including this gizmo to wire in the Massoth Chip. The LGB one will be better utilised in one of my LGB Trams.
Any help advice will be much appreciated.
JonD
 

Philbahn

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It's a voltage regulator and transformer which is normaly built in to the main board. . I personally would loose the lot and just put the massoth in.
BTW the little black box under the smoke box is where the speaker fits
 

stockers

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I Agree. Chop it all out and start from scratch. Its much the easiest way and those electronics are a bit long in the tooth now.
 

stockers

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I see where you are coming from Steve but I have never bothered changing the bulbs in my lights. The current draw for a few bulbs is pretty low. (Smake is altogether different, where current can be quite high)
Jon - You do have to change the volyage output on the decoder though if you keep the 5V bulbs. CV50 to 6 should do it.
 

dunnyrail

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Great stuff. As usual you guys help with my queries. I will take the original board out and do it all with the Massoth. This was my original plan but I saw that regulator and just copped out. Many thanks also for the advice re lights, I will probably use the low volt ones and reduce voltage in the CV's as suggested, however in the meantine I will cogitate over funandtrains suggestion re 24v ones. The speaker is already in its little Black Box.
JOnD
 

dunnyrail

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Having had help on what the gizmo was for I decided that I could use just the Massoth Chip for the beastie. So I stripped out all the LGB Power Board. Connected wires to all the lights, motor and the end connectors. These were all done to my LGB/my standards as follows:-
Motor - Green and Yellow
Track - Brown and White
Lights - Orange and Blue
End Connectors - Black and Red
Smoke Unit - left as Black and White

After wiring up as to the above standards I attached the Chip with one skrew to the Speaker Housing and connected the relevant wires to the motor and track. Here I tested the loco and all was well except that it went Backwards, easy just change the wires round on the motor. Retest and now goes Forwards on the controller when asked to do so.

Next was to fit the Massoth Sound Pot, this went in the cab with the twidly bit passing through a hole in the cab floor. It is accessible but pretty much unseen. It was screwed to the cab floor using a longer screw that holds down the Firebox Backhead, another screw into a new hole inserted to steady it. Again testing proved that it worked and that I could turn the noise to an acceptable level. Oh I had revised the CV to get it to work but more on this in a bit.

Finally the wires were connected for the lights as follows:-
Front lights, my Blue to LI-V
Rear lights, my Blue to LI-H
The Orange joined from Front and Rear to +24V on the same side of the chip as the LI-v and LI-H, I had to do some more wiring pairing as it is difficult to get more than 2 wires into each of the Terminal Blocks.
Internal Light, my Blue to LI-I
The Orange to +24V next to LI-I

I then did another test with the lights, making up a small test block to check out the end connectors. All was in order and the locomotive looked like this:-
839ffbc6c064444facf94151aabbbd77.jpg

Time to think about tidying up the wires and getting it all back together but I decided to attack the driver. He is that wooden one that has that annoying forwards lean that pops up in so many LGB locomotives. His posterior was removed with a triangular bit being cut out (ouch), straighten up some got rid of his forward lean. Then I cut off his left arm (double ouch) replacing it so that it ws touching the regulator. A bit of fill and some paint and he was not the man he started out as. He still has a bit of a forward lean and his head accentuates that but he is now a bit different so I can live with him for now.

Here is the situation with the wires tidied up ready to stuff it all back in to the boiler
793dbd0bc3fd4c94907ef203ff360f3b.jpg

Here is a picture of Heer Quick the driver and the loco as finished. Oh I had weathered it before the Chip revision and put some real coal in the coal hole just to the left side of the driver.
20df24a3befb4d36abfd9aa0c6740215.jpg

283fae1818e24789bd16fd69ea0c5419.jpg

dcb6ef06edb344e79731de0da3c20ff3.jpg


Finally the CV settings which were done before any of the wiring, I have a test chassis tha I use to test out chips and use that to do the updates as follows:-

CV1 = 7
CV29 = 6 (28 speed steps and digital only). This is the dreaded CV that can cause your lights to flash unexpectedly.
CV50 = 24 (reduced voltage front and rear lights)
CV53 = 24 (Internal and Auxiliary lights via connectors, reduced voltage)
CV56 = 0 (Auxiliary lights to front and rear sockets on when Light button Pressed)
CV200 = 255 (Pot enabled to adjust sound level)

Hope these notes help to remove some of the mystic about puttng a massoth Chip into your locomotive. I know that many of you out there will find this all so so, but a lot of you have helped me to get to this point so I thought it only fair to pass on your and a bit of my knowledge to the Forum for posterity.
JonD
 

KeithT

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V impressed John but it would have to be Plug n Play for me.
All those wires!!!:bleh::bleh::bleh:
Incidentally, you mentioned the dreaded CV which causes the lights to flash. That happens on my Saxon fitted with a Massoth chip, I have no idea what the CV setting is.
 

stockers

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Nice work Jon. Just a little worried about your lighting voltage. Full tack voltage is CV 50 at 32. You have set it at 24 which gives about 18V (if your supply is giving 24V).
CV50 should be at 6 or 7, maybe 8, for 5V.
 

Philbahn

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Neat job Jon. Welcome to the DARK side :happy::happy::happy:
By the way are you on Massoth control?
 

stockers

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Keith, CV29 does several different functions depending what part of the binary number (bit) you change. You easiest option is to set it to 14 speed steps. The second bit needs to be 'off' or '0'.
If your not sure on using binary numbers let us know what the CV is currently and we can advise an alternative setting.
If you have the massoth instruction booklet its attachment 1 your after. These CVs are a bit like riding a bike - once you have sussed it out its easy, but until them you just fall off.
 

ntpntpntp

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stockers said:
Your easiest option is to set it to 14 speed steps. The second bit needs to be 'off' or '0'.
Ah, but didn 't Keith say the problem with his loco is the lights flash? That's normally a symptom of the command station sending 28 step commands to a decoder that's set to 14 steps - so if anything I'd say change the decoder to 28 step. This came up on another thread not so long ago. If you send 28 step commands to a decoder expecting 14 step commands, the decoder interprets the extra steps as headlight commands because in 14 step mode the light bits are part of the speed step byte.
 

stockers

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You may well be right, but it also works (or rather the lights dont) the other way round.
 

KeithT

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stockers said:
Keith, CV29 does several different functions depending what part of the binary number (bit) you change. You easiest option is to set it to 14 speed steps. The second bit needs to be 'off' or '0'.
If your not sure on using binary numbers let us know what the CV is currently and we can advise an alternative setting.
If you have the massoth instruction booklet its attachment 1 your after. These CVs are a bit like riding a bike - once you have sussed it out its easy, but until them you just fall off.
The problem is that I don't have any reprogramming facility or means of checking the CVs.
It is the way it came. I worry that the lamps might blow with constant stressing.
Initially, I thought that it was a fault with my MTS2 but I am now using MTS3. I never thought of the speed steps being responsible!
 

dunnyrail

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stockers said:
Nice work Jon. Just a little worried about your lighting voltage. Full tack voltage is CV 50 at 32. You have set it at 24 which gives about 18V (if your supply is giving 24V).
CV50 should be at 6 or 7, maybe 8, for 5V.

Aha forgot to say with all the other stuff going on that I changed all the bulbs to 24v ones and under run them a bit to get them less bright so no worries.
JonD
 

dunnyrail

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Philbahn said:
Neat job Jon. Welcome to the DARK side :happy::happy::happy:
By the way are you on Massoth control?

I do have a Mossoth set up, but currently only using it in the workshop. The Garden is still with MTS Parralel set up. I have done work to swop things over like adding a bigger shelf in the shed where it will live, but I find the Massoth so useful when doing upgrades to my stock in the workshop. Have been with digital since around 1994 I think when the parallel first came out.
JonD
 

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KeithT said:
The problem is that I don't have any reprogramming facility or means of checking the CVs.
.........

As many others have suggested in previous threads, Keith, I'd strongly recommend buying a SPROG - possibly the best £50 you'll ever spend (on your trains, anyway...)!

Jon.
 

Zerogee

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dunnyrail said:
stockers said:
Nice work Jon. Just a little worried about your lighting voltage. Full tack voltage is CV 50 at 32. You have set it at 24 which gives about 18V (if your supply is giving 24V).
CV50 should be at 6 or 7, maybe 8, for 5V.

Aha forgot to say with all the other stuff going on that I changed all the bulbs to 24v ones and under run them a bit to get them less bright so no worries.
JonD

Nice install, Jon - could I just offer one little tip: get a bag of small cable ties (Maplins do some black ones that are about 100mm long and very narrow, about 50 or 100 to a bag for a few quid), they will allow you to bundle up the cables much more neatly and quickly than wrapping them in other bits of wire. On the XLS-into-2095 I've just done I've used loads of them, organising the four wires from each power bogie into neat looms with a cable tie every couple of inches.

Jon.
 

ntpntpntp

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stockers said:
You may well be right, but it also works (or rather the lights dont) the other way round.
Yep, if you set the decoder to 28 speed steps but the command station is sending 14 speed steps then the lights won't work at all 'cos the separate command to switch the lights isn't sent.
 

steve parberry

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Zerogee said:
dunnyrail said:
stockers said:
Nice work Jon. Just a little worried about your lighting voltage. Full tack voltage is CV 50 at 32. You have set it at 24 which gives about 18V (if your supply is giving 24V).
CV50 should be at 6 or 7, maybe 8, for 5V.

Aha forgot to say with all the other stuff going on that I changed all the bulbs to 24v ones and under run them a bit to get them less bright so no worries.
JonD

Nice install, Jon - could I just offer one little tip: get a bag of small cable ties (Maplins do some black ones that are about 100mm long and very narrow, about 50 or 100 to a bag for a few quid), they will allow you to bundle up the cables much more neatly and quickly than wrapping them in other bits of wire. On the XLS-into-2095 I've just done I've used loads of them, organising the four wires from each power bogie into neat looms with a cable tie every couple of inches.

Jon.

Pound shops also sell em in big bundles for a £?:clap::clap:
 

Zerogee

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That's a great deal if they're small enough, Steve - are they the very tiny ones? The ones I use have just a 100mm long "strap" that is only about 2mm wide, very neat and tiny for fine wiring - many of those designed for heavier work (mains cables etc) are much bulkier.