Bachmann 10 Wheeler Vs LGB R3 Turnout (Point)

[JimmyB]

I know the subject of the 10 Wheelers derailing and the issue with the LGB Points have been on here before. I have weighted and modified the 10 Wheeler pony truck, and currently this is not the issue, it is the leading driving wheels, and leading wheels on the tender bogie, and just with one specific LGB R3 Point. With the loco travelling towards the frog to follow the curved setting the pony truck traverses fine but the leading driver rides up on the outer check rail. I have run this at a extremely slow speed, with my head watching the issue and with the very occasional exception, it does it every time, and when realigned, the tender bogie does the same thing.
I have checked and levelled the Point and ensured the track leading to it is okay, most other locos and wagons traverse this point without issue, though there is an occasional derailment. I have other LGB R3 Points and this issue under similar circumstances does not happen, so I can only assume the issue is with the point, so sometime today (assuming I have a spare) I will change it out and see if that improves the issue

 

[Rhinochugger]

The LGB R3 point is problematic even for some LGB locos. The check rails are too short, and many LGB locos hit the end of the check rail with the wheel flange and you can see the loco jolt every time.

Hated them.

Got rid of them.

 

[Ralphmp]

How old is the point? I’ve only ever had a derailment issue with one R3 point and this was a while back. It was replaced FOC by GRS who mentioned that they had heard of issues with the first batches made in a new location. I think it was when LGB were struggling and trying to reduce costs. I recall posting about it at the time ( probably on GSM.).

 

[JimmyB]

Update:

Replacement (used) point found in my "track box", bench tested first, and the loco traversed it without issue. The swap was done and tested, and again the loco traversed without issue, so the problem is solved - or is it.
The faulty Point was set up on the bench, and now the loco traverses it without out issue - bizarre.
The 10-Wheelers (or at least mine is) know for being temperamental, and I use it to test any newly laid track, as Rhino says LGB R3 have a poor reputation, so I can only assume it was not laid "good enough", though I thought it was.

The moral is, (IMHO), if you have problems with your rolling stock in one particular area, it is more likely to be the track than the rolling stock

 

[Rhinochugger]

Bachmann's 10-wheeler is generally OK on 8ft and above, so the R3 at a smidgen under 8ft ought to be OK.

As I may have mentioned before, I am an expert on badly laid track and I can usually keep my locos and rolling stock on the rails, despite the quality of the track laying.

I moved to Aristo large turnouts (around 10 ft from memory) at one end of my station loops, and have one Aristo #6 and one USAT #6 at the other end. Apart from anything else, the #6 turnouts look good when viewed along the tracks

 

[Greg Elmassian]

It could have been a number of things, cross level (people rarely check this), a tight gauge (you did not indicate you checked gauge), etc.

The fact it worked on the bench would point to a cross level issue.

Greg

 

[JimmyB]

It could have been a number of things, cross level (people rarely check this), a tight gauge (you did not indicate you checked gauge), etc.

The fact it worked on the bench would point to a cross level issue.

Greg

Greg, though this (cross level) was checked, I suspect a minor twist somewhere, though not visually noticeable.

 

[dunnyrail]

Greg, though this (cross level) was checked, I suspect a minor twist somewhere, though not visually noticeable.

One thing that I do not think you have mentioned was a check of the back to back. This can also be a problem. My Irish conversion of a big hauler to a 2-6-0 was very problematical on points. I eventually wrapped some roofing lead round the pivot arm to give it more weight and problem solved. Would need to sit under the bogie on an unmodified loco. I also wonder if the Bachman flange profile and depth is somewhat different to that of LGB making things a bit tricky for the big haulers on LGB Track?

 

[JimmyB]

One thing that I do not think you have mentioned was a check of the back to back. This can also be a problem. My Irish conversion of a big hauler to a 2-6-0 was very problematical on points. I eventually wrapped some roofing lead round the pivot arm to give it more weight and problem solved. Would need to sit under the bogie on an unmodified loco. I also wonder if the Bachman flange profile and depth is somewhat different to that of LGB making things a bit tricky for the big haulers on LGB Track?

Jon, I will be checking that today, though the loco runs through all the points okay now (touch wood )

 

[Gavin Sowry]

Update:


The moral is, (IMHO), if you have problems with your rolling stock in one particular area, it is more likely to be the track than the rolling stock

Hallelujah Brother! I saw the flash from here when you got that bit of enlightenment. I've been trying to say that on this forum for ages, but the English to English translation seems to be on the blink.

 

[beavercreek]

I have a cluster of R3s on one of my lines (the self contained 'Quarry' line but they have not caused derailments but they do make the rolling stock and locos sometimes 'bobble'.

On the long 'local line', I have two R3s (where I cannot fit in R5s) and everything was fine until one of them would catch out a couple of 'Big Hauler' Annies.
I fiddled (as much as you can) with the frogs etc but to no avail. The points (switches) had been down for over 14 years and when I replaced them it all went well. The track bed had been closely checked and made good before the replacements.
Like you, Jimmy, the 'bad' points behaved fine on the test bed but if they were made to slightly arc across their width they became bad boys again...
So during the 14 years the ground had settled and buckled (we have clay soil) and this had forced the trackbed to place a wee bit of pressure on the uniformity of the 'cross-level' and voila it caused recalcitrant points.
Most of my line has been down for at least 15 years so there is always the excitement of checking each point and some plain track for uniformity each new season.
... and don't get me onto the subject of tree roots ( what were once benign specimens are now a wee bit bigger and causing major grief in two places on the layout!)

 

[JimmyB]

Maintenance for the 10-Wheeler (which has a "new" Annie chassis) clean and battery charge, and whilst I was at it I checked the B2B. The standard for G Gauge is 40mm, all the ales except one of the tender axles (40.8mm and therefore adjusted) were between 39.4mm and 39.9mm, the problem main leading axle being 39.8mm. I have found most of my stock (that I have checked) is between 39mm and 40mm, and that just under seems more preferable that just over.