Automatic Coupling and Uncoupling

Cliff George

Registered
24 Oct 2009
2,134
17
City of Chelmsford
Best answers
0
Country flag
I've been working up some experimental routines so that I can do automatic coupling and uncoupling, only just started but its looking good so far. I've worked out a couple of things so far:

1) I was going to fit automatic uncouplers to a selection of my locos, using servos. I don't think I'll bother as I can get it to work automatically and reliably with standard static in track uncouplers.

2) After uncoupling wagons tended to roll away, and coupling up again was not always very reliable as the coupling hook didn't tend to engage but just push the wagons backwards. This was solved by making the wagons less free running by fitting some LGB 63193 Electrical Contacts, the ones with the brushes that rub againts the wheels. They were just used to the extra resistance rather than as power pick ups.
 

don9GLC

Registered
24 Oct 2009
508
1
Aberdeen
Best answers
0
I'm guessing that you're using standard LGB type couplings. And you do not have reverse loops so that hooks are confined to one end only. I have considered using the Kadee magnetic type but have not got round to trying them.

Does your automatic routine operate under computer control? Then I'm mightily impressed! I could do that in the old days when a PLC meant Programable Logic Controller, not a commercial institution to lose your money. But its a huge program.

I have not progressed beyond a statement of requirements , but I'm trying to find a practicable solution to stopping a loco hauled train, then uncoupling the loco, running around the train, before re-coupling, while looking like it was real. That's where a DCC controlled uncoupler would be great. But on every vehicle?

Alternatively with Kadee, it just seems to have so many parameters that the number of track contacts just goes up and up!

You have reminded me of a perennial problem. Gradients do not help matters!

Many years ago I got this to work manually on a smaller scale, with overhead catenary, and I don't think any of my subsequent efforts have been so rewarding, or so much fun.

Please keep me / us updated on progress!

Grüzzi,
(yes RhB prototype here, so why bother with automatic coupling!)

Don
 

beavercreek

Travel, Art, Theatre, Music, Photography, Trains
24 Oct 2009
17,704
705
Colchester, United Kingdom
www.facebook.com
Best answers
0
Country flag
I have looked at Kadee couplers...
Peeps in States swear by them..maybe that is because they have to have near perfect track to operate reliably! :rofl:
 

stevedenver

Registered
24 Oct 2009
5,699
255
Best answers
0
Country flag
i know its obvious
but the lgb spring uncouplers are still very inexpensive (the small sprung unit that sits between the ties and pushes down the hook-and they work on the lgb knuckles as well-you need two for hook to hook coupling,as both must drop together )
in certain applications they are great, very reliable, and easily moved-but they can be so reliable that when you need to hook up and move on-sometimes you cannot becuase as you pass over-even at speed-you uncouple again - i use them in run around sidings-they are unbeatable in this use

havent used kadees in g, but i do in n scale-they too are a great system, and dont appear to be too termperamental at all-even passing over a magnet with a train, provided you keep tenstion-theres no issue-the nice part is you can uncouple and then push against the coupler to spot-the bad part is the magents are not always where you need them
kadees are pricey , especially if you have lots of stuff

imho automatic railroading is ....cumbersome at times
 

Cliff George

Registered
24 Oct 2009
2,134
17
City of Chelmsford
Best answers
0
Country flag
Hello,

Yes I'm doing this with computer control, LGB asymetric couplers and a powered in track uncoupler.

I've got a simple routine working on a very small demo/experimental layout I set up in my garage. Just two locos and one wagon.

Basically it goes like this:

Loco 1 drives to uncoupling track and uncouples then drives away.
Loco 2 comes in picks up the wagon and drives to end of layout (not far!)
Loco 2 comes back and uncouples the wagon and drives away.
Loco 1 comes back and picks up wagon.
etc etc etc .....

It works well and reliably, not sure it looks very real.

I've got 8 occupancy detectors for the whole demo layout, one in each of the six blocks, and one each for the two points.

Sorry I haven't got a video of this yet.

d7d0f31efa854b9b983804d6a1386dba.jpg
 

stevedenver

Registered
24 Oct 2009
5,699
255
Best answers
0
Country flag
cliff
that was a delightful video link
you have lovely garden
great fun
you have a very sophisticated layout
i enjoyed the 10x overview adn wathcing a glimpse of a greyish train bolting along the back garden bed-just a hoot to watch

i feel like a numpty for suggesting the simple LGB uncouplers

your layout is charming and the mix of trains as well as the collection of theme trains is wonderful-it really works nicely giving the feel of goods traffic

i have to say watching your trains has made me aware of how much i dont know-the computer control looks amazing-im analog and run 1-2 trains manually-i think im missing much......
 

don9GLC

Registered
24 Oct 2009
508
1
Aberdeen
Best answers
0
Cliff George said:
Hello,

Yes I'm doing this with computer control, LGB asymetric couplers and a powered in track uncoupler.

I've got a simple routine working on a very small demo/experimental layout I set up in my garage. Just two locos and one wagon.

. . . . .
It works well and reliably, not sure it looks very real.

I've got 8 occupancy detectors for the whole demo layout, one in each of the six blocks, and one each for the two points.
As they say, 'Different strokes, for different folks', but your demo layout approximates to my ideal. My current (occasional) test layout is on the circular dining table. Moving to the garage could have a few benefits. I'm not promising, but this could be the most inspirational thing I've seen since (not allowed to say)!

With someone else paying the cost, I have found that a working life spent pondering what could go wrong and then engineering solutions to (unlikely) events with catastrophic consequences, has not put me in the best position to advise simple affordable solutions.

But perhaps I am being a bit ambitious when I aspire to trains of more than one wagon. For realistic operation I think you need to know where the rear of the train is, and this naturally varies with the number of wagons.

My (simple) challenge is to automate a loco uncoupling from a two wagon train, then putting the leading wagon in another siding, to return and collect the rear wagon and place it in the other siding so that the wagon order is reversed. But without (relatively) high speed couplings.

And for advanced students, let a computer generate a random reordering of several wagons, and perform that. Then reset initial conditions and let you do it manually. Finally display your inadequacies!


It seems you have opted for track detection. Are you using ZIMO products? If not, which and your experiences, please. And which loco decoders? ZIMO claim 'intelligent braking' so that the stop position is (relatively) consistent irrespective of approaching speed. but I have no practical experience.

An inspiration so many ways.


Well done!
 

CoggesRailway

Registered
25 Oct 2009
8,597
8
Best answers
0
looks good, would love to see the video of whqt you describe.
 

Gizzy

A gentleman, a scholar, and a railway modeller....
26 Oct 2009
36,173
2,286
63
Cambridgeshire
www.gscalecentral.net
Best answers
0
Country flag
Not quite what Cliff is doing, but here's how I uncouple a train at Sheringham;

http://www.youtube.com/user/GizLiz#p/a/u/1/OGSD45IraEU

As my railway is an out and back configuration, I have hooks with loops at both ends of all my stock. To uncouple, I have 2 back to back uncoupler ramps, just in front of 'Brendan the Busker' there on the platform.

It's a KISS (keep it simple, stupid) form of automation, but one that could easily be 'motorised' and controlled via DCC if required....
 

Cliff George

Registered
24 Oct 2009
2,134
17
City of Chelmsford
Best answers
0
Country flag
Nice video Gary and thanks for the encouraging comments Steve.

Thanks for your comments Don, I'll try and make a few comments on you said.

don9GLC said:
But perhaps I am being a bit ambitious when I aspire to trains of more than one wagon. For realistic operation I think you need to know where the rear of the train is, and this naturally varies with the number of wagons.

Yes I agree that where the end of the train is important information to know. The software I use does potentially know this since one of the attributes that needs to be configured about each piece of rolling stock and loco is their length. The software keeps track of each train set length, and adjusts the length when uncoupling and coupling takes place. I know this works because the software uses it to ensure that train sets only get routed to blocks that are big enough, if the train set is to stop in the block. I've not yet worked out if this information can be accessed and used during coupling and uncoupling operations. I will investigate more.

don9GLC said:
My (simple) challenge is to automate a loco uncoupling from a two wagon train, then putting the leading wagon in another siding, to return and collect the rear wagon and place it in the other siding so that the wagon order is reversed. But without (relatively) high speed couplings.

I'm sure that this wouldn't be a problem to do.

don9GLC said:
And for advanced students, let a computer generate a random reordering of several wagons, and perform that. Then reset initial conditions and let you do it manually. Finally display your inadequacies!

I think getting the computer to generate a random reordering of wagons would be beyond me at the moment!

don9GLC said:
It seems you have opted for track detection. Are you using ZIMO products? If not, which and your experiences, please. And which loco decoders? ZIMO claim 'intelligent braking' so that the stop position is (relatively) consistent irrespective of approaching speed. but I have no practical experience.

I am led to believe that ZIMO make very good quality DCC components (at a price), particularly decoders with good slow speed running characteristics and other features that you point out. I don't have any ZIMO equipment at the moment, The decoders in the locos I used for my uncoupling and coupling demo routines are both by Lenz but the software is not using any special decoder feature and so it should work with any good quality decoders. Although I have not tried this yet I'm going to swap the locos in my demo for two others and see if it works, I think it will but I will let you know.

When I say the decoders don't have to have any special features they do have to have the ability to turn off any internal momentum, which most do via a function, and have good quality and well set up back emf control to keep the loco speed the same at each speed step regardless of gradient, curves, train load etc. All my decoders native LGB, Massoth, Lenz and ESU have these abilities (although the LGB ones don't have a function to turn off momentum, the same can be acheived by setting the CV controlling the amount of momentum to its minimum value)
The computer software does all of the speed and momentum control itself. Each loco needs to be calibrated against the software so that the software knows the loco speed for each speed step, there is a built in routine that runs the loco back and forth between two points at each step to work this out. Using this information the computer can very accuratly stop a train at given fixed locations (such as uncoupling ramps) regardless of initial approach speed, loco or length of stopping distance.

For occupancy detection I'm using the LDT RS8 on my demo layout, however my garden layout uses different occupancy detection hardware. The RS8 seems to work well although I wouldn't use it with high current draw locos.

Sorry if this is a bit techie.