An elcheapo sound card system... Well an alternative anyway....

tramcar trev

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I enclose pics as promised re a suitable power supply for these sound modules and amplifiers.
Because I tend to go for overkill I have used 2 10uF capacitors with the - leads soldered to the ground on the chip the + leads go to the V in and V out. You can get away without using caps at all but they are recommended to improve the "transient" response, whatever that is....
I used an LM7805CV chip which is a 1.5 amp 5 volt regulator. The orange and black wires are respectively the Vin which has to be within the range of 7 to 35 V the black is negative. The red and black wires are the V out which is 5V + & - and connect to the sound module. I have not put a heatsink on the LM7805 simply because this circuiut only draws power when the gong is sounding and then its around 80mA the Amplifier will of course draw more and may have to be powered up all the time to stop weird sounds as it powers up, dunno will have to see.Having given this more thought I now propose to wire this in so that as the power is fed to the motor from the ESC the gong will sound as the tram starts to move. I have no idea if this will work or not, it works with the adjustable power supply but the juice coming out of the ESC may not be "pure" enough to make the module work.... Further experiments are on going...

DSCF1182_428x321.JPGDSCF1186_428x321.JPG



 
 

Tony Walsham

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Trev,
You might consider adding a .1 µf monolith cap (usually marked # 104) across the in and - terminals as well. These suppress the high frequency transients the electrolytic caps cannot suppress.
 

gregh

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tramcar trev said:
Having given this more thought I now propose to wire this in so that as the power is fed to the motor from the ESC the gong will sound as the tram starts to move. I have no idea if this will work or not, it works with the adjustable power supply but the juice coming out of the ESC may not be "pure" enough to make the module work.... Further experiments are on going...
I doubt the amp can be powered from the ESC. If you connect the amp across the 2 motor wires, you'll just get PWM across the amp and the 10uF isn't going to filter that. ( Just as an aside - If you're using a Hobbyking ESC, the battery positive goes straight through the ESC to one side of the motor, and the other motor wire is switched on/off by the ESC. So the 'negative' of the regulator will be at + battery volts when the motor is off.)

A warning about biggish capacitors on the output of the 7805 regulator. You shouldn't have them ! I'd say you're OK with the 10uF on input and output. But look at this data sheet on page 8 for reverse bias protection.
https://www.sparkfun.com/datasheets/Components/LM7805.pdf
 
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Be advised, that though this voltage regulator can accept an input voltage of 36 volts, it is recommended to limit the voltage to 2-3 volts higher than the output regulated voltage. For a 5-volt regulator, no more than 8 volts should be applied as the input voltage.

The difference between the input and output voltage appears as heat. The greater the difference between the input and output voltage, the more heat is generated. If too much heat is generated, through high input voltage, the regulator can overheat. If the regulator does not have a heat sink to dissipate this heat, it can be destroyed and malfunction.

So the two options are, design your circuit so that the input voltage going into the regulator is limited to 2-3 volts above the output regulated voltage or place a heat sink in your circuit to dissipate the created heat.


Voltage regulator circuit as per the data sheet.
Voltage Regulator.jpg



The 1N4001 is to prevent reverse voltage connection, the first capacitor, the 0.33uF ceramic capacitor, is hooked up after the voltage source, and before the input of the LM7805 regulator. This capacitor is there to filter out any noise coming from the voltage source . The voltage regulator works best and will be most efficient when a clean DC signal is fed into it.

You don`t want any ac noise (ripple) imposed on the DC line voltage. The capacitor, in essence, acts as a bypass capacitor. It shorts the AC signal of the voltage signal (which is noise on the voltage signal) to ground and only the DC portion of the signal goes into the regulator.

The second capacitor, the 0.1uF ceramic capacitor, is hooked up after the voltage regulator. This capacitor is there again to filter out any noise or high-frequency (ac) signals that may be on the DC voltage line.

A 0.1uF ceramic capacitor should also be connected across the  positive and negative inputs of both the sound record module and also the LM386 module, also ensure ALL separate or shared NEG inputs are tied to only  ONE  common negative (GND) source.


      5 volt voltage regulator circuit, this is the one I use for all 78xx and 78L and other  fixed or variable voltage regulators.

5v Voltage Regulator.jpg

The Transient Response of RC Circuits
The Transient Response (also known as the Natural Response) is the way the circuit responds to energies stored in storage elements, such as capacitors and inductors.
If a capacitor has energy stored within it, then that energy can be dissipated/absorbed by a resistor.
  How that energy is dissipated is the Transient Response.
 

tramcar trev

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Ok not a problem, I can easily fit ceramic caps. Ok so if I want to use the output from the ESC to power the 7805 would it be an idea to put a small rectifier and a capacitor in front of the 7805? I was also going to drive the amp ( it also runs off 5V) with the same 7805. I can put a heatsink on the 7805 but I have had this setup running from 13.8V for over 24 hrs and its not even warm to the touch, it only draws power when the play button is pushed but when I connect the amp up that will draw around 800mA constantly so a heatsink would be required then...

All good advice.....trouble is I only know enough to be dangerous....
 

gregh

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tramcar trev said:
Ok not a problem, I can easily fit ceramic caps. Ok so if I want to use the output from the ESC to power the 7805 would it be an idea to put a small rectifier and a capacitor in front of the 7805? I was also going to drive the amp ( it also runs off 5V) with the same 7805. I can put a heatsink on the 7805 but I have had this setup running from 13.8V for over 24 hrs and its not even warm to the touch, it only draws power when the play button is pushed but when I connect the amp up that will draw around 800mA constantly so a heatsink would be required then...
Can you explain why you want the regulator and amp and sound card powered from the ESC ? I can't follow. Why not power from the battery direct and trigger the sound playback separately?

On another track - it's most unlikely the amp will take 800 mA continuously. The current when not playing any sound should be less than 10 mA at a guess (the quiescent current in the data sheet).
Now a litle maths - the MAXIMUM power the amplifier can deliver into a speaker is approx :
Pmax= Battery volts squared divided by speaker resistance divided by 8. (you'll have to trust me, I'm not going to explain it!)
so if you have a 5V supply and 8 ohm speaker, the max power the amp can deliver is about 0.4 watts.
Now lets say the amp is only 50% efficient (pretty bad amp!) then you'll be dissipating only 0.4W in it and the total power from the battery will be 0.8W at 5V = 160 mA. And this is only when it's playing a sound at max volume.
 

tramcar trev

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gregh said:
Can you explain why you want the regulator and amp and sound card powered from the ESC ? I can't follow. Why not power from the battery direct and trigger the sound playback separately?

On another track - it's most unlikely the amp will take 800 mA continuously. The current when not playing any sound should be less than 10 mA at a guess (the quiescent current in the data sheet).
Now a litle maths - the MAXIMUM power the amplifier can deliver into a speaker is approx :
Pmax= Battery volts squared divided by speaker resistance divided by 8. (you'll have to trust me, I'm not going to explain it!)
so if you have a 5V supply and 8 ohm speaker, the max power the amp can deliver is about 0.4 watts.
Now lets say the amp is only 50% efficient (pretty bad amp!) then you'll be dissipating only 0.4W in it and the total power from the battery will be 0.8W at 5V = 160 mA. And this is only when it's playing a sound at max volume.
Valid points...
Ok I'm trying to get the trams gong to sound automatically every time it starts up. So with that in mind I'm suggesting that if I power from the ESC ( don't worry its a 20 amp ESC but there is only 15 amps in the overhead) that as the power comes on once it rises sufficiently to provide 5V via the 7805CV (1.5A) that this will trigger the gong if the "play" button is depressed (shorted). I have tried this using the adjustable power supply and when the supply gets to around 7v the gong sounds and during that the current draw is about 80mA. Now that's great with straight DC but from the ESC I'm getting pulsed DC so there is 12V there as soon as the throttle is opened ( the width of the pulse determines how long the motor is switched on hence the speed). I think its the pulsing that's going to prevent success...

I could trigger using another channel on the R/C or I could trigger with magnets and reeds; if the automatic triggers don't work I'll have to go with one of the other methods...

On the topic of the Amp the little ones I have on order get rave reviews apparently, I'm now thinking that if I used 2 sound modules connected to the R & L channels on the Amp with that driving a speaker on each channel I could have very real stereo sounding gongs. The modules would have to be jumpered together for recording to capture the stereo from the PC soundcard. This would be a world first; Stereo tram gongs on a model tram?
I found a utoob clip which has inspired me even further with these $1.97 Amps...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bVuy9ph9T4k
 

tramcar trev

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Madman said:
I found these on Ebay. The second one looks simple to use. How would I get the sound from them to the boards you have been talking about?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/400638266952?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2648&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

http://www.ebay.com/itm/350810825608?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2648&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

I have just heard the results form the first of these see: http://www.ebay.com/itm/400638266952?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2648&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

A mate has one that he uses PROFESSIONALLY. Sound from the on board speaker is "tinny" but very clear and distinct and it has stereo (L&R) microphones. Imagine having 8 hrs railway/tramway sound recording at your fingertips? Or even as a "domestic" assistant - left recording all day so when you get into one of those delicate situations where your wife says you said one thing and you know you didn't but can't prove it??? Worth every cent!!
 

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Hi
I have been adapting the cheap mp3 players from ebay. Record the sound on micro sd cards. I have basically gutted the player taken out the board and adapted it to switch on by r/c. Advantages are that it comes with rechargeable battery pack and the speaker output is 3w.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Mini-USB-FM-Radio-Music-Player-Micro-SD-TF-Card-Speaker-For-MP3-Phone-PC-Black-/170786151845?pt=UK_MP3_Player_Accessories_AudioDocks_Speakers&hash=item27c3a5dda5
 

tramcar trev

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So you have decased this? Sounds interesting. Maybe a good solution for me down the track, so to speak, I will want the sounds of a band emanating form a bandstand etc.
 

gregh

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scouse2003 said:
Hi
I have been adapting the cheap mp3 players from ebay. Record the sound on micro sd cards. I have basically gutted the player taken out the board and adapted it to switch on by r/c. Advantages are that it comes with rechargeable battery pack and the speaker output is 3w.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Mini-USB-FM-Radio-Music-Player-Micro-SD-TF-Card-Speaker-For-MP3-Phone-PC-Black-/170786151845?pt=UK_MP3_Player_Accessories_AudioDocks_Speakers&hash=item27c3a5dda5
Your're lucky. My order for similar things has got lost twice from this mob:
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Hotter-Portable-Music-Player-Mini-Speaker-USB-Input-Micro-SD-TF-for-PC-MP3-MP4-/360667270953?

I'm sure there's thread here somewhere with others having problems buying these on ebay too.
 

tramcar trev

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gregh said:
My mind moves slowly ..... but why do you need a 5V regulator? The ESC puts out 5V doesn't it? and you have an ESC in each tram?
I was trying to get the gong to sound using the output of the ESC to power the 7805 and then the sound module. The BEC only has 1 amp output and the amp may need that when its working.
 

gregh

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tramcar trev said:
I was trying to get the gong to sound using the output of the ESC to power the 7805 and then the sound module. The BEC only has 1 amp output and the amp may need that when its working.
Have you got one of these recorder+amplifier things yet to test?
I doubt very much your amp will take 1 amp at 5V. Even using a 4 ohm speaker, the max power you can get out is less than 1 W - at 5V that equals 200mA.

If it is <1A then the 5V from the ESC should do the trick. Then just need a positive trigger pulse from the ESC/motor - how about a 555? Have you used them?
 

tramcar trev

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Short answer it that I know a 555 is a timer and that's about it.... I've probably put 1000's on boards.... Wait a minute, whoooah Yes I used them in the signalling circuit, but I forget why............
The other bits have yet to arrive. It will be interesting to compare the true elcheapo sound modules with the ISD1820 modules... They are about 5 times the size and will probably be more suited to the presentation of extraneous sounds around the tramway.
This clip shows one of the amps in use and it draws 800mA when in use to get best performance.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bVuy9ph9T4k
 

tramcar trev

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Here we have 2 schematics for the sound modules (these are the Xmas Card modules as shown in the photos trimmed up without the batteries). They are also for stereo sound as the PAM8403 Amps are stereo equipped… If you don’t want stereo then just use either the left or right channel and of course a single sound module. But HEY!!! With an alleged 3 Watt output (per channel) why wouldn’t I keep the neighbours amused…? &gt;:( &gt;:( &gt;:( ??? ???

This circuit is designed to emit the sound (gong, whistle or whatever) as soon as power is supplied from the ESC. There is no juice flowing in “stop” mode. When you stop the thing resets itself ready for the next start. The play button is shorted, the sound from this module will only play once every 10 seconds or once when powered up with the play button shorted. I have gone to considerable difficulty to show the + side of the circus in red so that I don’t confuse myself. I envisage the 3 boards to be sandwiched with foam double sided tape the Amp on top, the resultant package would then be the size of a postage stamp. For the 10 seconds things are powered up the 7805 does not heat up at all so heat sinking may not be necessary. If you were running a continuous sound &quot;loop` and drawing around 1 Amp continuously then heat sinking may be imperative...

Slight modifications needed for a reversing ESC is the rectifier, if it’s a single direction ESC then D1 is only needed. The Baldwin lookalike has a reversing ESC the electric trams are &quot;manual&quot; Reverse....


Sound control module circuit_622x876.jpg

My gratitude to the CEO of the Sandstone & Termite for his assistance on this project.

So as I come from a land down under and have very thick tanned skin who wants to pull this to bits? It’s all theoretical at this stage….
 

tramcar trev

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An amplifier arrived today, its very small; obviously designed for the modeller in mind. It barely covers my fingertip and its stereo!!
Waiting for the ISD1820 sound boards to arrive so I can hook it all up....

DSCF1206_1072x804.JPG
 

tramcar trev

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So where am I at with this?
The ISD1820 modules have arrived and been played with, though there is some background hiss that cannot seem to be fitered out. Greatly indebted to Greg H who has been helping with the right advice re capacitors to couple the sound module to the amplifier. I thought I had found the noise as 50Hz hum so I filtered that out but still noise there.

The good news is that I have enough volume to send her indoor insane...

I await the arrival of a batch lot of the "greeting card" modules. The one I had I managed to blow up but they did not have the noise the ISD1820 modules have. Even without the amp they still have background noise. The recording level is a bit critical too, volume to high and you do get distortion on playback.

I must say that I get the best performance from the little stereo amp in the preceeding post and the 2 very small speakers; http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/390549633957?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649

They sound better than the expensive Jaycar one I have but speakers are not speakers when buying make sure you get full response and not "tweeters"which most of the smaller sizes are. The stereo sound does have a far better and more "natural" sound especially with high pitched whistles.

Overall, and taking into consideration the price I paid, I think this is a good way to go for DIY sound effects.
 

tramcar trev

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The recordable sound cards have arrived by obviously tall ship from China, they have been enroute since January.&nbsp; New replacement soldering iron also arrived so now the job of making some stereo sound modules can get underway with all possible dispatch.

These are the greeting card version and they can be modified to run off 5V using an LM7805. I have mounted mine on a small scrap of Vero board but they can be simply put together soldering the components to the leads on the LM7805. I’ll include an addendum (A) indicating my sources for all the bits and pieces at the end of this discourse. And as the suicide bombingk instructor said “do pay attention I’m only going to demonstrate this once!”

I am using 2 modules sandwiched together via some double side foam tape, 1 module for each channel as I want a stereo sound effect the amplifier similarly stuck on top of the 2 modules. The pictures show the difference between 2 channel mono and 2 channel stereo. Audibly (that is to the ear) the difference is quite profound (even without my hearing aids worn). Each module is connected to the left and right channels on the amplifier respectively. It’s a PAM8403 dual channel 3watts per channel (6 Watts total) unit and is also powered by 5V from the same LM7805.&nbsp; When playing the whole thing draws around 400mA so the LM7805 won’t need to be heat sunk. This is coupled to 2 small full response speakers (small speakers tend to be “tweeters” great for high frequency not so good for allover sound) that ideally should be mounted around the thickness of the average human head apart to get the best “response”; we hear in stereo and if you think about it that’s how far our ears are apart. This module only gives a 10 second recording and can’t be constantly played; if you wish constant sound then you should use an ISD1820 sound module in loop play mode other wise there are no changes. If you want only 1 speaker then only use 1 module and 1 channel on the amplifier.

First task is to trim the sound module boards to remove the batteries and clean a spot where the 5V is to be connected. I did this with a pair of scissors taking care not to cut into any essential tracks. The + end has a red wire soldered to it and the – end has a black wire just for clarity. Some of the protective overlay had to be cleaned off to allow the solder to stick. Ok that was easy enough…Now to ensure that I can record in stereo I have to solder the wires from both modules that connect the record buttons i.e. 1 record button for both modules (red wires, not speaker wires they are red too) and for purposes of playback the same thing for the white wires. There is one catch here the wires from the “hot” sides of the button have to be connected together, likewise the wires on the “cold side”. Simplest way to do it is to unsolder the button, lay the modules down side by side, twist the wires from the right side pad together, like wise the wires from the left side. Do this for both lots of wires i.e. the red and the white then solder them back to where they came on the push button… There is some glue over the solder joints here, easily pried off with some small pliers/side cutters or you can melt trough it with you soldering iron create a real mess and have to pull what remains of the glue off. This work is only temporary to allow the stereo recording; I’m also typing as I’m working so as not to forget anything and try and keep things in a logical sequence, illogical as that may sound.

So where was I? Oh yes moving forward we are now almost ready to record. You could now power this up and press the button with the red wires attached and record via the microphone and you would get a stereo recording of what ever you wanted but it, like all “live” recordings would have lots of extraneous background sounds (people talking, tram conductors asking you politely to “please put the motor hatches in the floor DOWN! Etc) so it’s best to do it directly and digitally from your computer soundcard. To do that you will need a lead. I made mine, from a 3.5mm stereo plug to 4 small clips. I thought Jaycar sold them but if they do then I can’t find them. The red clips go to the + on the module, the black clips to the -. One thing with this project you do end up with some useful “junk” as the microphones are cut off and a trick shown to me by the CEO of the “Sandstone & Termite Railway” is that a 1K Ohm resistor is needed across the wires to give the same impedance as if the microphone was still there i.e. you are changing the “Mic input” to “line in”. I simply soldered a resistor to the pads to be unsoldered when the need arises.

The actual recordings themselves you can download from the net or you can DIY sound clips or for my use I have stripped the audio of some video I have recorded in my travels.

I then fire up my Adobe Audition Professional edition (yeah I know - I should refer to all males as “dudes” and grow a pony tail drive a Porsche and reside in a Harbour side mansion), I only use the “professional” edition because a canny Scots mate found a site where I could download it for free. For those of you who wish to do this and who do not have a pony tail and drive a Porsche you can download V3.0 for free here; http://www.techspot.com/downloads/5733-adobe-audition.html
In itself, this is fantastic software that lets you clean up any audio, remove 50Hz hum, and delete background noise. I use it quite a bit for digitally remastering old recordings; it does a super job of removing hiss, clicks and noise and the abrasive sounds from 78’s. Nellie Melba has never sounded so good… Ahhh yes there is no place like home… See you have made me digress yet again.

We are ready to make the recording; the supplied .5 Watt speakers are still connected to allow us to make sure the recording is OK. I found I had to fiddle with the input volume by adjusting it on my PC; this may or may not be necessary depending on the quality of your original recording. When I’m satisfied that all is working well then I can cut off the speakers and connect the amplifier and the 2 small speakers and the job is then ready for installation.

Please bear with me while I rummage around and find the amplifier….
While I’m waiting for it to resurface I’ll go through the capacitive coupling of the module to the Amplifier. I am greatly indebted yet again to the CEO S&TR for his advice on how to do this. Basically you need 4 X 10nF capacitors solder one end (these are not polarized) to one side of the speaker output on each pad so that you end up with 2 modules with 2 capacitors soldered to the speaker outputs. Now note carefully the polarity, on the module board there is no polarity marked but choose one pad to be + and wire that to Lin on the amplifier. Now take the corresponding lead from the other board and solder it to Rin. Next solder both other leads to G between the Rin and Lin. You now have the board connected by the input to the amplifier capacitors. Then you can connect the power supply, the positive goes to the +5V hole the negative goes to the Gnd hole just above it. Next is the speakers they go in to the&nbsp; holes marked R+ , R-, L+ & L- the red wires from the speaker to the holes marked +

Ok all connected up and ready to test to see if this all works, I already know it does but allow me just a small amount of drama. It does not look neat does it, now comes the hard part. Cleaning up all the wiring, removing the temporary stuff and making it up into a neat little sound unit to fit under my trams floor. I shall remove the 1Kohm resistors, the leds, and the record and play buttons. I plan to trigger the sound by getting power on the “control” side of the electronic speed control. I will need to short out the play buttons. Hopefully this will work I have had a bit of a play with it and it seemed to be ok. So as I put the tram into “first notch” the gong will sound, the steam tram will emit a cheerful toot on whistle and the silent era will draw to a close. I may also fit a reed switch under each tram and a magnet at strategic points on the tramway where I want the gong sounded or the whistle blown.

This unit is quite small; I’m fast running out of space under my trams. I guess this unit could go under the seats on the saloon cars. It could be used down to HO scale I recon, it would fit into a wagon or engine tender reasonably easily….. Its been a lot of fun to make and a lot smaller than the commercial sound boards around, the big plus is of course that I get a unique sound, my own sound and not a synthetically generated sound….All at around AU$10 per unit….. Its not “elcheapo” for no reason…

Further details when I actually fit it, I have a few to make so I’ll get them all to this stage before doing the installation…





Addendum A

LM7805 voltage regulator; you can get them at Jaycar or here:
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/130458795410?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649
A circuit is here:
http://www.rakeshmondal.info/IC-7805-Voltage-Regulator

The sound module is here:
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/221274916994?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649 Make sure you buy 3 ones with 3 batteries!!!

The ISD1802 module (for continuous loop) is here:
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/ISD1820-Voice-Sound-Board-Recording-Playback--Module-On-board-Microphone-NEW-/370982174059?pt=AU_Gadgets&hash=item566042bd6b&_uhb=1
Separate instructions for it are here:
http://www.eimodule.com/download/EIM353_ISD1820_Module_Manual_V01.pdf

The PAM8403 Amplifier is here:
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/230982040401?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649

Capacitors can be found at Jaycar or here;
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/50x-10nF-10000pF-50V-CAPACITOR-CERAMIC-AXIAL-X7R-50-PCs-/171006928721?pt=AU_B_I_Electrical_Test_Equipment&hash=item27d0cea751&_uhb=1
These axial ones are good as it’s easier to line the leads up for soldering…

Suitable speakers are here (but you can use any 8 Ohm speaker):
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/390547123464?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649 the larger the size the louder and better the sound will be, sort of.

This gadget is handy; it lets you plug the recording lead into a USB slot on your PC especially if the line out socket is on the back of the PC.
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/150884059919?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649

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Dual track mono waveform
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Stereo wave form
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Messy but it works
 

nygma

Registered
31 Oct 2010
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Budapest, Hungary
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Not for model train, but I have also been looking into various sound modules. I found two in IC Station dot com:
WTV020-SD-16P: http://www.icstation.com/voice-module-disk-audio-player-card-wtv020-p-1678.html
This is available from many other places. It is basically a sound player with a micro SD card. Does not work with MP3, so you need to so some conversion, but this can hold hours of music. Comes with a built in small amplifier. The same model is available from many places (e.g. eBay).
ICH030A: http://www.icstation.com/icstation-channel-control-voice-sound-record-playback-module-p-5237.html. This has a memory of about 10 minutes. Can store 4 sounds that are activated with a button. This accepts input voltage from 5-12V. Again has a built in amplifier.

I have just literally completed a video review of this two, yet to be uploaded to Youtube.