Alternative sound storage for LGB 6500x sound units
- Thread starter Neil Robinson
- Start date
[H4]Posted by: fnrobinson[/b] Sep 5 2008, 11:57 PM[/H4] The LGB 65xxx series of sound units and some LGB factory fitted sound units need an energy storage system to provide low voltage operation on analogue.
One alternative to LGB?s storage unit is to connect a 9V PP3 (6LR61 or MN1604) battery to the storage unit terminals. Unsurprisingly the battery negative connects to the centre, common negative connection and the battery positive to the 9V+ one.
This is O.K.(and relatively cheap) provided you can install the battery where it is easily replaced. Both rechargeable and non-rechargeable batteries would work fine.
Another alternative is to build your own capacitor storage unit.
You?ll need a 9V 78S09 voltage regulator (Maplins part number UJ55K, 83p at the time of writing) and four 10F 2.5V capacitors (Rapid Electronics part number 11-2142 about £3.70 each with a reduction for ten or more). This represents a reasonable saving on the LGB unit, particularly if you need several.
To connect to the LGB unit I use a standard 0.1? (2.54mm) pitch female pcb connector.
[H4]Posted by: BEAVERCREEK[/b] Aug 13 2009, 05:05 PM[/H4]
Hi Neil
I have bought some 6v and 9v (8.4v)NimH battery packs. I know thatr by connecting them to the LGB common (-) and (+9) It would give the standing sounds but how would I recharge them by using the variable (+9) connection?http://www.gscalemad.co.uk/forum/style_emoticons/default/blink.gif
Many thanks
[H4]Posted by: fnrobinson[/b] Aug 13 2009, 06:25 PM[/H4]
Personally I'd fit a suitable switched socket (http://www.rapidonline.com/Cables-C...er/DC-Power-Connectors/DC-Power-socket/66560) and connect it to an appropriate external charger via a matching plug.
[H4]Posted by: BEAVERCREEK[/b] Aug 14 2009, 02:22 PM[/H4]
Thanks for reply Neil
I will order a few of the dc power sockets. Most locos have a good hidden space for the socket but my NW2s have provided me with a little challenge as they have very little room under the chassis or on top for mounting switches etc without having to take out the smoke units or to completely customise the front switch panel. At the moment I have a volume control sticking out through the bottom of the open back cab door!
I know I will seem mighty thick but how will the battery powerpack be wired to supply power to the LGB sound unit and also to receive the charge when charger is plugged in?
Again many thanks for any light you can throw onto my probs
[H4]Posted by: fnrobinson[/b] Aug 15 2009, 10:33 AM[/H4]
I hope this illustration will make it clear. I've labelled the three connections on the back of the socket, P for pin, O for outer and S for switch. With a charging plug inserted in the socket only P and O are connected to the respective parts of the plug. When the plug is removed O is connected to S.
[H4]Posted by: Richie[/b] Aug 15 2009, 11:09 AM[/H4] Hi Neil
I have a QSI sound decoder from Jeremy which he fitted a super cap to so that i have standing sounds for 30 sec with no power . No need to charge would think you could use this with other sound boards cost around £13
http://www.qsisolutions.com/products/techinfo/other/supercap_wiring.html
[H4]Posted by: fnrobinson[/b] Aug 15 2009, 11:59 AM[/H4] Especially with capacitor circuits provision must be made to ensure that the maximum rated voltage of the components isn't exceeded. The QSI unit seems to be rated at 6V, the LGB (and my version of it) is rated at 9V. I don't know if 6V would be sufficient for an LGB unit or 9V prove too much for the QSI circuit.
Personally I'd investigate each brand of sound unit on an individual basis. If their own storage system is available and reasonably priced I'd use it, if not I'd see what alternatives with a similar specification could be used.
[H4]Posted by: BEAVERCREEK[/b] Aug 15 2009, 11:49 PM[/H4]
Many thanks Neil
What would we do without you
[H4]Posted by: Tim Brien[/b] Sep 22 2009, 08:48 AM[/H4] Neil,
I use four 'AA' rechargable cells (nominal 4.8 volts) to power my LGB 6500X series sound units. They work perfectly and give me an extended slow speed chuff which the factory capacitor system was unable to achieve.
One alternative to LGB?s storage unit is to connect a 9V PP3 (6LR61 or MN1604) battery to the storage unit terminals. Unsurprisingly the battery negative connects to the centre, common negative connection and the battery positive to the 9V+ one.
This is O.K.(and relatively cheap) provided you can install the battery where it is easily replaced. Both rechargeable and non-rechargeable batteries would work fine.
Another alternative is to build your own capacitor storage unit.
You?ll need a 9V 78S09 voltage regulator (Maplins part number UJ55K, 83p at the time of writing) and four 10F 2.5V capacitors (Rapid Electronics part number 11-2142 about £3.70 each with a reduction for ten or more). This represents a reasonable saving on the LGB unit, particularly if you need several.
To connect to the LGB unit I use a standard 0.1? (2.54mm) pitch female pcb connector.
[H4]Posted by: BEAVERCREEK[/b] Aug 13 2009, 05:05 PM[/H4]
fnrobinson said:
Hi Neil
I have bought some 6v and 9v (8.4v)NimH battery packs. I know thatr by connecting them to the LGB common (-) and (+9) It would give the standing sounds but how would I recharge them by using the variable (+9) connection?http://www.gscalemad.co.uk/forum/style_emoticons/default/blink.gif
Many thanks
[H4]Posted by: fnrobinson[/b] Aug 13 2009, 06:25 PM[/H4]
BEAVERCREEK said:
Personally I'd fit a suitable switched socket (http://www.rapidonline.com/Cables-C...er/DC-Power-Connectors/DC-Power-socket/66560) and connect it to an appropriate external charger via a matching plug.
[H4]Posted by: BEAVERCREEK[/b] Aug 14 2009, 02:22 PM[/H4]
fnrobinson said:
Thanks for reply Neil
I will order a few of the dc power sockets. Most locos have a good hidden space for the socket but my NW2s have provided me with a little challenge as they have very little room under the chassis or on top for mounting switches etc without having to take out the smoke units or to completely customise the front switch panel. At the moment I have a volume control sticking out through the bottom of the open back cab door!
I know I will seem mighty thick but how will the battery powerpack be wired to supply power to the LGB sound unit and also to receive the charge when charger is plugged in?
Again many thanks for any light you can throw onto my probs
[H4]Posted by: fnrobinson[/b] Aug 15 2009, 10:33 AM[/H4]
BEAVERCREEK said:
I hope this illustration will make it clear. I've labelled the three connections on the back of the socket, P for pin, O for outer and S for switch. With a charging plug inserted in the socket only P and O are connected to the respective parts of the plug. When the plug is removed O is connected to S.
[H4]Posted by: Richie[/b] Aug 15 2009, 11:09 AM[/H4] Hi Neil
I have a QSI sound decoder from Jeremy which he fitted a super cap to so that i have standing sounds for 30 sec with no power . No need to charge would think you could use this with other sound boards cost around £13
http://www.qsisolutions.com/products/techinfo/other/supercap_wiring.html
[H4]Posted by: fnrobinson[/b] Aug 15 2009, 11:59 AM[/H4] Especially with capacitor circuits provision must be made to ensure that the maximum rated voltage of the components isn't exceeded. The QSI unit seems to be rated at 6V, the LGB (and my version of it) is rated at 9V. I don't know if 6V would be sufficient for an LGB unit or 9V prove too much for the QSI circuit.
Personally I'd investigate each brand of sound unit on an individual basis. If their own storage system is available and reasonably priced I'd use it, if not I'd see what alternatives with a similar specification could be used.
[H4]Posted by: BEAVERCREEK[/b] Aug 15 2009, 11:49 PM[/H4]
fnrobinson said:
Many thanks Neil
What would we do without you
[H4]Posted by: Tim Brien[/b] Sep 22 2009, 08:48 AM[/H4] Neil,
I use four 'AA' rechargable cells (nominal 4.8 volts) to power my LGB 6500X series sound units. They work perfectly and give me an extended slow speed chuff which the factory capacitor system was unable to achieve.
This is an appeal to Neil
This works great for the LGB sound modules. Would it also work for the Soundtraxx Sierra and Phoenix 2K sound boards? If so how would they connect to the boards (would it just be a replacement for the back-up battery?
Many thanks
This works great for the LGB sound modules. Would it also work for the Soundtraxx Sierra and Phoenix 2K sound boards? If so how would they connect to the boards (would it just be a replacement for the back-up battery?
Many thanks
Short answer, I don't know.
Longer answer.
As the components for the LGB type capacitor units cost more, are more bulky, need more time to make up than replacement batteries for the Sierra and Phoenix units and may not suit their charging circuits I'd just replace like for like.
The Phoenix battery pack is very similar to a cordless phone pack available from Maplins, ( http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module?Modu...Sealed-rechargeable-lead-acid-batteries/71676 < Link To http://www.rapidonline.co...d-acid-batteries/71676 ) . One is an approx cube, the other half the width and twice the length, choose whichever will fit the available space.
Longer answer.
As the components for the LGB type capacitor units cost more, are more bulky, need more time to make up than replacement batteries for the Sierra and Phoenix units and may not suit their charging circuits I'd just replace like for like.
The Phoenix battery pack is very similar to a cordless phone pack available from Maplins, ( http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module?Modu...Sealed-rechargeable-lead-acid-batteries/71676 < Link To http://www.rapidonline.co...d-acid-batteries/71676 ) . One is an approx cube, the other half the width and twice the length, choose whichever will fit the available space.
Many thanks once again Neil
I have contacted Soundtraxx just for confirmation of what they suggest for their old defunct product line. I Had a look at the batteries that you linked to some time back, but becuse of size restriction I was after the exact size tiny jobby that Soundtraxx used to supply with their boards. Apparently that size is only offered in the States!
Phoenix do have a pdf of their 'Supercap' circuit on their website ( http://www.phoenixsound.com/support... the one that you posted for the LGB modules.
I have contacted Soundtraxx just for confirmation of what they suggest for their old defunct product line. I Had a look at the batteries that you linked to some time back, but becuse of size restriction I was after the exact size tiny jobby that Soundtraxx used to supply with their boards. Apparently that size is only offered in the States!
Phoenix do have a pdf of their 'Supercap' circuit on their website ( http://www.phoenixsound.com/support... the one that you posted for the LGB modules.
Does anyone know if the plug to fit in the LGB unit is available commercially from Rapid, Maplin or RS?
I've circled the socket on Neil's diagram....
I've circled the socket on Neil's diagram....
Gizzy said:
The proper plugs can be obtained from Champex Linden. However 2.54 PCB connectors will fit.
http://www.rapidonline.com/Cables-C...B-Interconnect/2.54mm-KK-PCB-Connectors/66414 < Link To http://www.rapidonline.co...K-PCB-Connectors/66414
beavercreek said:
Try Farnell http://uk.farnell.com/tyco-electronics-amp/102241-1/crimp-housing-1-row-3way/dp/1822573 < Link To http://uk.farnell.com/tyc...-1-row-3way/dp/1822573
You'll most likely be able to buy just the one and get it post free. Don't forget to buy the socket contacts as well.