3D Scratch Building

Good one!

Well, in one aspect, if you take a number of bits of wood and make a building or machine metal, I think everyone would call that scratch building.

If you got a 3d file and just printed it, I would not call that scratch building, no creativity, nor expertiese other than operating a printer required.

If you design the 3d file, then i would consider that designing/building.

Greg
 
Greg Elmassian said:
Good one!

Well, in one aspect, if you take a number of bits of wood and make a building or machine metal, I think everyone would call that scratch building.

If you got a 3d file and just printed it, I would not call that scratch building, no creativity, nor expertiese other than operating a printer required.

If you design the 3d file, then i would consider that designing/building.

Greg
Click to expand...
Greg,

What if I am the one getting all the information and producing a sketch for some to create a 3D CAD file on my behalf, I have done the donkey work and produced sketches showing how the part should look and dimensions but not the physical CAD drawing, does that mean my parts are scratch built or would they come under a different heading?
 
I would submit that the design work would be the scratch building part, just as in creating/shaping wood or metal parts from raw stock and assembling them.

So, you have designed PART of the model, but now you are splitting hairs, I would have to reserve judgement on how "finished" the sketches are, i.e. how much design there was.

Big difference between;
1200px-Stick_Figure.svg.png
%25E5%259C%2596%25E7%2589%25871.jpg


You can come up with the "gray area" easily.

But as an example that is clear to me: Someone receiving a file and pushing a button to print it is not a scratch builder.

Now, I would respect the effort to research and obtain documents and dimensions as work, but it's not the same creative process, I would not call a researcher a scratch builder, nor would I call a 3D printer a scratch builder.

Greg
 
For my part I have so called scratch built a few engines in 0 gauge and even 1 in G scale. But for all of them I bought wheels, gears and motors oh and yes the wires to connect wheels to motor. But every one of them involved lathe and some milling machine work. Now I reckon if you have the ability to create a 3d drawing and put the thing together after possibly adding a few bought or hand made parts that is as good as scratch building to my view.
 
A laser cut part is a laser cut part, an etched brass part is an etched brass part, a 3D printed part is a 3D printed part, all of them almost certainly created using Computer Assisted Design software. No matter how skilful the design process, there is no way that the resulting part can be referred to as 'scratch built'. Scratch building requires, sawing, filing, scribing, scraping, sanding and cutting (and often the spilling of a little blood) in order to produce a part or model, not the pushing of buttons. As you may surmise from the tone of my comments, it is something I feel quite strongly about.

A gratuitous pic of a scratch built freelance O-16.5 plasticard model that I created many years ago, before 3D printing had even been dreamt about.

.Neg 35 - 02.jpg

David
 
JimmyB said:
Question - why does it matter what it’s called as long as you enjoy it. But more importantly if you wish to call it scratch building, that’s up to you, your train set call it what you want:)
Click to expand...
It matters because to call something 'scratch built', that is not, demeans and devalues the skills involved.

David
 
David1226 said:
It matters because to call something 'scratch built', that is not, demeans and devalues the skills involved.

David
Click to expand...

But if you want to build a model of something yourself, without buying proprietary parts, you start from scratch!
 
There isn't many people who TOTALLY scratch build. Not that many will make a motor, most will add bits from the "spares box". But the real skill is having the imagination to make things work out to create the model
 
David1226 said:
It matters because to call something 'scratch built', that is not, demeans and devalues the skills involved.

David
Click to expand...
Paul M said:
There isn't many people who TOTALLY scratch build. Not that many will make a motor, most will add bits from the "spares box". But the real skill is having the imagination to make things work out to create the model
Click to expand...
So to build a wooden scratch built model, you need to grow the tree, harvest, cut, plane, and build, or do you BUY the wood required and build. To scratch build you "start from nothing", but you never do.
If the 3D printed model is one piece, from a proprietary drawing, probably not scratch built, but if from a multiple parts in drawing you have made yourself, it COULD be.
I know in 0 Gauge, there are "scratch builders aids" parts pre made by somebody else, yet the outcome is a scratch built model - really :)
 
JimmyB said:
So to build a wooden scratch built model, you need to grow the tree, harvest, cut, plane, and build, or do you BUY the wood required and build. To scratch build you "start from nothing", but you never do.
If the 3D printed model is one piece, from a proprietary drawing, probably not scratch built, but if from a multiple parts in drawing you have made yourself, it COULD be.
I know in 0 Gauge, there are "scratch builders aids" parts pre made by somebody else, yet the outcome is a scratch built model - really :)
Click to expand...
Yes indeed I got an 0 gauge brass kit of a Terrier back in the 70’s that could only really be referred to as a scratch builders aid. Forwards some years probably the 90’s there was a good collection of G or more likely 15mm to the foot brass aids to make Irish Railcars and I think even some locomotives mostly Donegal prototypes if my memory serves me well. I wonder how many of them are lurking in lofts somewhere?
 
JimmyB said:
So to build a wooden scratch built model, you need to grow the tree, harvest, cut, plane, and build, or do you BUY the wood required and build. To scratch build you "start from nothing", but you never do.
If the 3D printed model is one piece, from a proprietary drawing, probably not scratch built, but if from a multiple parts in drawing you have made yourself, it COULD be.
I know in 0 Gauge, there are "scratch builders aids" parts pre made by somebody else, yet the outcome is a scratch built model - really :)
Click to expand...
Not wishing to start a flame war, but I find those comments vacuous, disrespectful and unworthy.

David
 
David's loco is scratch-built, although I would guess the chassis / motor-blocks may be from either a commercial model, or bought-in?

The early wooden 'kits' were really a pile of 'sourced wood' - you had to cut to size, and assemble the model.

I think we would agree, our tram-making David, is scratch-building, even though 'someone else' is supplying some parts?

Is 'scratch-building' not where a particular item does not exist (commercially) so you create it?

If you buy a LGB Harz 2-10-2, then change the running-number, pipework, detailing etc....
Is that 'scratch-built'?

I think this is one, where we will all have a different idea, of when a model is 'scratch-built' or 'improved' / 'renumbered' etc?

PhilP
 
To me, I think there are 3 types
1. Bought, plug and play, finger slip etc.
2. Kit built, a set of pre made parts and instructions of how to assemble.
3. Scratch built, starting from a set of plans/drawings or photographs, making or adapting commercially parts and constructing something unique

So if you use software (yours or someone else's) is that any different than buying a book and using plans from that book to create a part?
Is printing of 3d parts any different than shaping and joining wood, plastic or metal?
A different skill or method Yes, but the result is something unique, which to me is Scratch building.

In summary, can you stand back and say,
"I made/built that"
 
Last edited:
David1226 said:
Not wishing to start a flame war, but I find those comments vacuous, disrespectful and unworthy.

David
Click to expand...
David I am sorry you feel that way, and the model in post#7 is rather fantastic, especially as it is scratch build and would not like to take anything away from you ability, but as PhilP PhilP quotes, and in my mind similar there are:
  1. RTR modified
  2. RTR "bashed"
  3. Kit built
  4. Kit "Bashed"
  5. Scratch built "with aids"
  6. Pure scratch built
3D printed models do not come under the first 4 headings, and so is possibly under heading 5, but I think where 3D printing sits is a grey area.

Now to address the comments at me:

vacuous - having or showing a lack of thought or intelligence; mindless
disrespectful - showing a lack of respect or courtesy; impolite
unworthy - having little merit

I really did not thinks you cared that much
 
David1226 said:
No matter how skilful the design process, there is no way that the resulting part can be referred to as 'scratch built'. Scratch building requires, sawing, filing, scribing, scraping, sanding and cutting (and often the spilling of a little blood) in order to produce a part or model, not the pushing of buttons.
Click to expand...

On the other hand though those were the skills and tools available to you at the time you settled on your own definition of what scratch building is. My previous 'big build' involved a fair amount of cutting, bending and shaping of plasticard and metals, but I also used some 3D printed parts. I don't count it as any less 'scratchbuilt' for that, in fact I had to design parts that otherwise I probably would have just purchased as castings so it was probably more work. My latest plan is scratch built around a skeleton of a couple of dozen 3D printed components. I could have carved them all from plasticard, but why would I? There would be less chance of them all being uniform, and they're hidden away anyway.

Just because it's a skill that exists based around a virtual model doesn't make it any less valid. Lots of people can do some basic parts in CAD if they tried, few go on to learn advanced surfacing techniques. If you gave a beginner a Stanley knife, a steel rule and some plasticard, they'd probably be able make you a box, it doesn't make your own effort less impressive. Time goes on and new skills become available, the only people losing out are those rejecting them because they're different to what they already know :confused:

That's not to say that I'm arguing that downloading a file from Thingiverse and pressing play is the same thing, but I don't think anybody was?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom