3d Printed Emd Sw1500 And Emd Dda40x

sn00zerman

sn00zerman

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Hello all,

I'm brand-new here (introduced myself in the "new members" section), and I already would like to share 2 projects I'm currently occupied with.

Due to health issues, I'm not able to operate my CO2 laser, CNC milling machine or lathe, so I decided to do some CAD work and 3D printing :)

First creation is an EMD SW1500, this is not drawn by me, but originated from Daniel Noirée (from the openrailway google group). I only modified the STL files to be more easily printable on an FDM 3D printer.
This was more a "proof op concept", to see if all my "theories" are correct.
It turned out fine, so I'm now in the process of making my own electronics (wifi control/sound/motor/smoke/lights),
painting and lettering ... (this machine needs to be ready for Christmas, it's for my wife, she "owns" the garden railroad)

More pictures and info can be found on my personal blog, direct link: http://www.digitalplayground.be/?p=3276

Second machine, a DDA40X. I assume this is the biggest diesel locomotive ever built ?
Even in scale 1:32, it measures about 104 cm (41 inch) !
This one is all done by myself, CAD drawings in Solidworks, based on info,pictures, other files and blueprints,
from resources all scattered over the internet :)
Printing was done on simple & cheap FDM printers.
(I own a Velleman K8200, a scratch-build Ecksbot and a Prusa i3)

More pictures and info can be found on my personal blog, direct link: http://www.digitalplayground.be/?p=3339

I hope to update this thread on a regular base

best regards,
Kris
 
trammayo

trammayo

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Very impressive! And we like updates too!
 
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Zerogee

Zerogee

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Spectacular!
What does something that size cost in terms of raw materials and print time....?

Jon.
 
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sn00zerman

sn00zerman

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Hi Jon,

For the DDA40X:
Print-time is a bit less then 2 weeks. (but I printed it on 2 printers simultaniously, 24h/24h - 7d/7d)
I did need about 3 spools of 1 KG filament (but not completely), here in Belgium you can find them for 19 euro a piece. (so about 20,15 dollar per KG filament)

For the SW1500:
About a week of printing, on one printer only, a spool-and-half ...

Furthermore, electronics can be as cheap as you decide yourself. I go for the full monthy (working fans, smoke generator, full syncronised sound, lights, speed, control over wifi ... all DIY ofcourse)
I also mill my own PCBs, so for me the electronics will be less then 15 euro.

For paint, I use Vallejo paint, this seems to be the most expensive part. I ordered for about 75 euro of paint (for the 2 locos together, and I'm sure I will have plenty left afterwards)

Lettering: I own a Cameo Silhouette vinyl cutter/plotter, so lettering only cost me some cheap vinyl paper.
I did order however some decals for the Union Pacific logo and american flags, found on Ebay. Don't remember the exact price, but shipping to Belgium from USA was more expensive then the actual value of the decals ...

For the motors, I bought some micro motors with reduction gearbox on it. (1:50) with a final RPM of 500.
Those did cost about 4 euro per piece.
The motors for the fans (150 RPM without reduction box), where about 10 euro (incl. shipping) for 10 pieces. (I only need 8 pieces for the 8 fans)

Smoke generator is a simple mist-maker that costs about 4 euro on ebay. (incl. shipping)
I'm still looking for a way to make my mist black (maybe it's as simple as adding some black paint to the water ?)

If I roughly make an estimate, the SW1500 will cost about 75 euro when completely finished and RTR.
The DDA40X may be about 100 to 125 euro when RTR.
I find this extremely cheap, with the prices of commercial products in mind ...

best regards,
Kris
 
Zerogee

Zerogee

Clencher's Bogleman
25 Oct 2009
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Thanks for the info, Kris!
So if you have your own printer(s) as you do, is is very reasonable, though if you were paying for 1-2 weeks of time on someone else's printer I imagine that would add quite a lot to the cost! ;)

Is the resolution of the print good enough that the bodyshell is ready to use straight off the printer, or do you have to do much sanding down and cleaning up of it before painting?

Looking forward to seeing the end result of the finished locos!

Jon.
 
mike

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thats fantastic...
 
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Rhinochugger

Rhinochugger

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Apart from the fact that they're absolutely stunning, it questions the myth about the cost of 3D printing and printed parts for G Scale.

Are we missing something? In the 1.5 / 2 weeks of printing, do the machines need 'minding'?

My 2 x N gauge Rocky Mountaineer coaches and underframes have cost me £70 (100 euros) from Shapeways (plus postage from Eindhoven).
 
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Zerogee

Zerogee

Clencher's Bogleman
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Apart from the fact that they're absolutely stunning, it questions the myth about the cost of 3D printing and printed parts for G Scale.

Are we missing something? In the 1.5 / 2 weeks of printing, do the machines need 'minding'?

My 2 x N gauge Rocky Mountaineer coaches and underframes have cost me £70 (100 euros) from Shapeways (plus postage from Eindhoven).
That goes back to my comment in post 5 above..... if you have your own machine(s) and you're not paying for time on someone else's printer, the costs seem very reasonable. If you have to pay for a week or two of somebody's machine time then I hate to think what the costs would be.....

Jon.
 
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sn00zerman

sn00zerman

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Well, 3D printing is a steep learning curve. I'm into 3D printing for almost 2 years now, I couldn't imagine printing the items that I'm able to print now. My first printer was a Velleman K8200 (NOT the 8400), it did cost me about 600 euro, and was a real disaster at the beginning (it was the most cheap thing available at that time). Don't call me crazy, but I did know that when I bought that printer. I'm a guy who likes to thinker with things and modify them. I like opensource designs. So, after building the printer together (it came as a kit), I started modifying it for a few weeks.
(nothing "heavy", check out the story at http://www.digitalplayground.be/?p=3329 ) I started with some things I downloaded from Thingiverse. After a few months, I found the (freely available) CAD-files of an Ecksbot ( http://www.eckertech.com ) , a printer that did cost above 1000 euro ! I did manage to print all parts on my K8200, and bought a heatbed, steppers, rods etc ... from Ebay, I did build this printer for less then 300 euro !
A few months ago, I bought a Prusa i3 of Ebay, for about 265 euro !

So, if you are thinking about 3D printing, bu a cheap Prusa i3 or something within that price-range, and start thinkering with it. It will cost you a few months to get the hang of it, but after that, the sky seems to be the limit :)
You need to have a fair amount of technical knowledge and have some patients, but after all, it's worth the adventure :) (even when you start printing a loc like the DDA40X, you could earn back the price of your 3D printer with your first printjob (hiring print-time is expensive, if you ask shapeways for a quote to print this DDA40X, you will get a quote that goes far above 700 euro !)

To answer another question, print-quality is equal opposite to the time you spend learning to know your 3D printer and fine-tune it. I tought it was not possible to print items without the famous "lining" in the final parts. I noticed some "lining" in one of my pictures, but this is due to the lighting during taking the pictures. You can't feel any lines, it's only a coloring issue due to lines laid down from right to left and left to right alternating.
When the primer is on the locomotive, you will not see this anymore, so be patient for new pictures, when the primer is on :)

About the "minding" of the printer, I'm not sure if I fully understand the question (English is not my native language, so also sorry for any mistakes). When the files are "prepared" for printing, I order them by printing time needed, and also include the length of filament that is needed for that particular part, and I upload them to the printer. I run large jobs overnight. (so, start a job before I go to sleep, and the part will be ready when I wake up), next I start a new job that is finished before lunch-time. (I go home during lunch-hour, I'm only 3 KMs away from my work) During lunchtime I start another Job that does not fit within a 4-hours timeframe, but also doesn't need all night to finish, so the job will be finished somewhere between when I get home from work and diner-time. Smaller jobs are run at the hours that I'm at home ...
Also, I keep into account that I don't run in an "out-of-filament" situation when I'm not home or asleep.
So, it takes some time to "prepare" the printjob queue, to make the total project-printing-time as optimal and short as possible. You could also start printjobs every night or morning or so at random, but I think you need a lot more time to finish a project such as the DDA40X :)


Just my 2cents :)

best regards,
Kris
 
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beavercreek

beavercreek

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Stunned............ :eek::eek:
The possibilities are limitless.........
 
Zerogee

Zerogee

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Kris, I think what was meant by "minding" the printer is whether it needs regular supervision and checking while it is running, especially if it's going to be a job that takes days to print... you've mentioned having to make sure you don't run out of filament in the middle of an overnight print job, but apart from that do you need to check on the printer regularly to make sure nothing has gone wrong, jammed etc, which could ruin and waste a whole print?
Or are the printers so reliable that you can just set them up and leave them to print unattended?

One thing that isn't really clear - with the two large loco bodies you showed at the top of this thread, is the whole bodyshell just one single huge print, or is it broken down into several parts that are printed separately and then assembled?

Jon.
 
Rhinochugger

Rhinochugger

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Ah, forget it - WANT ONE !!:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:
 
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sn00zerman

sn00zerman

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Jon,

I must be honest, when I started with 3D printing, I had lots of jams and failed prints etc ... Since a year or so, I let my printers run and let them to the job, without even thinking about it. (It became a habbit of starting new jobs before going to sleep, in the morning, at lunchtime etc ... Every printer is connected to a Raspberry Pi and a webcam, so from time to time I check in over the internet to see my printers working, but this is a feature that I used a lot in the past, and now only use to give people a quick look, when I'm talking to them about my 3D printing adventures) In the last year, I had about 2 jams, due to an error in the filament itself. (there was some "vessel cord" inside the filament, that caused the nozzles to be blocked) People talking about lots of jams or other problems etc ..., need to fine-tune settings and check mechanical problems with the printer itself ! I even print reliable with cheap Chinese filament. (I buy the cheapest filament within Europe, because shipping those 1 KG spools is expensive from outside Europe)

Those consumer printers only have 30 W x 20 D x 20 H as a printvolume. (I'm in the process of designing my own 3D printer with a 65x65x65 build volume, but this is really not necessary, it's more of a "proof-of-concept", I'm sure I will sell this printer when it's finished) ...
As you can see in the next picture, I do cut-up my locomotive into lots of (strategic) pieces. Sometimes because they are to large, sometimes because it's easier to print.
I glue them together with Bison industrial super glue. (where pieces touch, I sometimes put a bit of "putty" and sand it down later, to "hide" where the pieces are glued together)



Even the pieces are not filled in completely inside. for example, the side-panels are 3 mm thick. the outer shell of such a panel is printed at 100% for only 0.8mm the rest of the inside is filled with a grid-pattern and is only filled up for 20%
Don't let the 20% fool you, is very strong, and with filling the internals of pieces with only 20%, you win a lot of filament, and the locomotive becomes doesn't become to heavy ...

Furthermore, a 3D printer is like a car. From time to time, it needs some maintenance, so you can keep using it ...
Once a week, I take some time to clean the toothed extruder axis. (I simply take it out, and use a blow-torch to burn any filament-residue from the axis) and I put a bit of WD40 on the smooth rods and threaded rods.
Once a year, I change the nozzle from the hotend. It did cost me about 4 euro for 10 pieces. (Ebay China) It's only a precaution, I'm sure you can use them longer then a year. (even 24h/24h - 7d/7d that is)
in those 2 years, I had a stepper-motor quit working (simply replaced it, 12 euro for a nema17 stepper, I have them laying around here, I use them in all sorts of projects) and the power-supply of the K8200 gave up after only using it for 2 months,
but hey, the specs of that power-supply where actually under-rated with 12A for 3 steppers, a hotend and a heatbed. I replaced it with a 20A, and never had any problems since. (15A would also do I assume)
Also some ball-bearings where already replaced after a few months on the K8200, I replaced them with other 608ZZ bearings (that I use on my other machines), and also never had any problems since :)
(If you would go for a Velleman, don't buy the K8200, but the new K8400 instead, I have a few friends with a K8400, and I can tell, those are fine machines (but pricey compared to a Prusa i3)

If I forgot something, or if you have any more questions, please don't hesitate to ask them.
(Just got home from work, 5 PM here in Belgium, weekend starting, hope to get the boogies drawn up this weekend, so I can start printing them and put the loco on his feet (I mean, wheels)


best regards,
Kris
 
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PhilP

PhilP

G Scale, 7/8th's, Electronics
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Excellent Kris! - We told you we would be asking all the questions!

I have one:
On the EMD, you appear to have printed wheels and axles? Have you run these at all? And are they robust (strong) enough to not wear very quickly?

Thanks,
Phil P.
 
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Rhinochugger

Rhinochugger

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No, no, yes, no - Changed my mind.

What I really want is someone to 3D print me a WY&PR shovelnose in 1:20.3.

That DDA40X makes me drool :nod::nod::nod::nod::nod::nod::nod:
 
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PhilP

PhilP

G Scale, 7/8th's, Electronics
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At the risk of this thread degenerating into a 'we want this' list..
I would like a LYD2 in 7/8th's. :clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:
 
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sn00zerman

sn00zerman

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Phil,

The axles are not 2D printed, they are 4 mm brass, and the "run" into ball bearings.
I printed the wheels indeed, but this is just to see if everything fits together.
I'm currently in doubt about 3 possibilities:
- run the locomotive with full printed wheel
- turn the diameter of the printed wheels down for 1 or 2 mm and make metal rims on my lathe.
- make the wheels fully in metal on my lathe.

We own several commercial loks, and some of them also have plastic wheels, so it should be possible to run with the printed wheels.
(don't under-estimate the hardness and durability of printed parts. I have a friend who is a cycling-fanatic. He used to have aluminium gears on this bike, but they don't last long.
(a few months, I guess he uses cheap Chinese gears) I once printed a gear-wheel for his bike, and his is already using it for about 9 months now, without any noticable wearing-off !
(I must say, they are not printed with 20% infill but 95%)
So, I think I will use the printed wheels, until I see any noticable wearing-off, before going for option 2 or 3 ...

PS:
I looked up a LYD2, doesn't seems so hard to do :p
Also the shovelnose Rhinochugger is talking about, is only a few hours of work, including printing it :)
(Maybe I should start my own business, with so many requests, LOL)



best regards,
Kris
 
idlemarvel

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This is the best, most useful, descriptive, concise, practical conversation on the realities and possibilities of 3d printing I have ever seen. Thank you Kris. I'm going to give this serious consideration, as I'm sure many other readers will. It seems like there is some reasonable financial outlay to buy the equipment and you need to be a bit of an engineer to put it all together but the biggest cost is time to practice and learn.

Your English is excellent by the way.
 
Madman

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You are very talented, and that's putting it mildly. I cannot even grasp alot of the new technology that is out in the world today.
 
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