2 loco's on single track?

[Graham@4]

Hi everyone,
I have just been running a small loco with 6 wagons on my track, when the loco was going up a slope which I have on my track it started to slip quite a bit. When I gave it more power it was fine. I had a thought!!
I live east of Stroud in Gloucestershire and the track there has to go up quite an incline at a place called Sapperton Bank. Years ago goods trains that had to take on that climb called on the assistance of a banker loco which was based at nearby Brimscombe station. That would then push the train up the bank as required.
My thought was this, why don't I use a banker on the back of my train to do the same manoeuvre. I tried it, not only did it work but looked quite good as well. Clever eh!! -- or not!! Will running 2 locos on the same single track, with 1 controller damaged anything??
I'm still the newbie on the block, and would appreciate any advice or comments.
Best wishes,
mailto:Graham@4 < Link To Graham@4

 

[ntpntpntp]

Depending on your controller, the two locos might require more amps than the controller is designed for. If this is the case the locos will run slow, the controller will warm up and the overload cut-out will eventually trip.

It is unwise to run different types of loco as a double-head or banker because the mechanisms will probably run at different speeds, which can lead to derailments and also strain on the mechanisms in the worst case. Even two locos of the same model may run at different speeds due to stiffness or wear in the mechanism, differences in electrical characteristics etc. Best thing to do is to run the two locos close to each other but separated, and observe whether one runs faster than the other over the normal range of speed. If there's only slight difference you'll be ok.

 

[ge_rik]

Also, if you want realistic operation, you'll need a couple of isolated sections on the mainline, so you can stop the train loco, isolate it, then bring up the banker to the rear of the train. Then energise the isolated section and both locos will be powered. Take the train up the incline, then isolate the banker on the second isolated section while the train proceeds. At some point when the train loco has reached another section you can then re-energise the second isolated section and run the banker back down to its siding. Sound more complicated than it really is - here's a simple diagram to show what's needed.

To create the isolated sections you'll either need some of those orange plastic rail joiners in place of normal rail joiners, or a hacksaw.

Rik
PS You'll need to isolate the banker loco on the siding as well because LGB points are non-isolating. One of the reasons I went for DCC was the complications caused by non-isolating points when wanting to run more than one loco.

 

[pghewett]

Besides the question of power draw, you need to ascertain as to whether both locos have identical performance characteristics. If they both produce the same acceleration and tractive effort that's fine; if not, then one will be doing more work than the other and tend to either pull or push the other, so wasting the power which should be devoted to moving the rolling stock! (Real banking in R-scale is something of a black art and a constant source of mutual narking amongst loco crews...). You may well find that seemingly similar locos don't actually perform identically (for example, the various editions of the LGB U class have changed operating performance over time).

GH

 

[Elmtree Line]

Will running 2 locos on the same single track, with 1 controller damaged anything??

Easy Answer without all the waffle is NO.

 

[Elmtree Line]

Depending on your controller, the two locos might require more amps than the controller is designed for. If this is the case the locos will run slow, the controller will warm up and the overload cut-out will eventually trip.

It is unwise to run different types of loco as a double-head or banker because the mechanisms will probably run at different speeds, which can lead to derailments and also strain on the mechanisms in the worst case. Even two locos of the same model may run at different speeds due to stiffness or wear in the mechanism, differences in electrical characteristics etc. Best thing to do is to run the two locos close to each other but separated, and observe whether one runs faster than the other over the normal range of speed. If there's only slight difference you'll be ok.

I disagree with you.

I have been running in G Scale since 2007, I have double and triple headed locomotives and have also banked trains using different locomotives from different manufacturers. I have never had an issue apart from needing lots of amps to power the trains with. It is true that if you push a slow running train with a faster loco you will end up pushing the stock off the rails on a corner.

 

[Steve]

Depending on your controller, the two locos might require more amps than the controller is designed for. If this is the case the locos will run slow, the controller will warm up and the overload cut-out will eventually trip.

It is unwise to run different types of loco as a double-head or banker because the mechanisms will probably run at different speeds, which can lead to derailments and also strain on the mechanisms in the worst case. Even two locos of the same model may run at different speeds due to stiffness or wear in the mechanism, differences in electrical characteristics etc. Best thing to do is to run the two locos close to each other but separated, and observe whether one runs faster than the other over the normal range of speed. If there's only slight difference you'll be ok.

I disagree with you.

I have been running in G Scale since 2007, I have double and triple headed locomotives and have also banked trains using different locomotives from different manufacturers. I have never had an issue apart from needing lots of amps to power the trains with. It is true that if you push a slow running train with a faster loco you will end up pushing the stock off the rails on a corner.

Could this be because most of your locos are live steam Keith

 

[nicebutdim]

Locomotives converted to rc are best for banking

 

[Elmtree Line]

Depending on your controller, the two locos might require more amps than the controller is designed for. If this is the case the locos will run slow, the controller will warm up and the overload cut-out will eventually trip.

It is unwise to run different types of loco as a double-head or banker because the mechanisms will probably run at different speeds, which can lead to derailments and also strain on the mechanisms in the worst case. Even two locos of the same model may run at different speeds due to stiffness or wear in the mechanism, differences in electrical characteristics etc. Best thing to do is to run the two locos close to each other but separated, and observe whether one runs faster than the other over the normal range of speed. If there's only slight difference you'll be ok.

I disagree with you.

I have been running in G Scale since 2007, I have double and triple headed locomotives and have also banked trains using different locomotives from different manufacturers. I have never had an issue apart from needing lots of amps to power the trains with. It is true that if you push a slow running train with a faster loco you will end up pushing the stock off the rails on a corner.

Could this be because most of your locos are live steam Keith

Actually Steve no, most of my loco's are infact electric. I only tend to photograph/film the Live Steam workings as those appear to be the ones that attract the most interest on the net.

 

[Glengrant]

Hope you don't mind me putting my twopennorth in here old boy. First of all most of the cognoscenti (know-it-alls) around this forum will tell you that despite mucking around with G-gauge for some years now I am a rank armature when it comes to the technical side of things. I run a very basic analogue system, I don't know if you could call it a system, and don't do it very well. The only chips I handle are in a newspaper with a large haddock. However, I get a lot of fun out of it, so yah boo. Two engines. Yes, great idea. The benefits as far as I am concerned is the two locos will smooth over those gaps in my current due to dead frogs and just plain dirty track. I think there has to be an adhesion benefit also. I don't run big trains, and try to keep a pair of locos running in sympathy with each other, if you see what I mean. If I find that two locos together start taking "rugs" as they used to say, or derail on bends etc then I will change the combination for something more suitable, but that seldom arises. On a simple analogue setup I would say that there is no straightforward power benefit.
Here is today's unlikely combo. Actually, it's probably not so unlikely, as at one time the GE U25B would easily have been riding the rails at the same time as the Santa Fe little slopeback tender 0-4-0. I love that engine. Did I have to go all the way to Brooklyn to buy it? O f course I did

 

[CoggesRailway]

You'll be absolutely fine with what you are doing.

 

[funandtrains]

The only problems I've had have been with my LGB F7 A-B-A set with a long train, when slowing down because the B unit is unpowered and light it is derailed by the weight of the rear locoand train behind it.

 

[BrianC]

I've recently started running a pair of Stainz to double-head my track maintenance train comprising a crane and open wagon, both fitted with LGB cleaning pads and well-weighted, plus 4 or 5 assorted loaded wagons. This gets run at the start of a session and having the two locos gets over the stalling on dirty track. I was concerned at first as I'd read that double-heading was not a good idea, but as long as the locos are equally matched then there doesn't seem to be a problem. These old Stainz are ideal for heavy and dirty work.

 

[chris m01]

I run analogue and concur most of what is said here.
Double heading isn't a problem so long as you have sufficient amps.
It is desirable that the two locos perform in a similar way but not necessarily exactly the same.
I do enjoy running one radio control loco at the same time as one track powered loco on separate trains.
I often run two separate trains on the same track. I use the passing loop to allow the faster train to overtake the slower one when it gets close. To do this the passing loop is isolated with power switching as the points change. The points are remote control so I can sit and watch two trains running on analogue with no problem.
My long train video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NXQUDVPQJGY&feature=share&list=UUSOHLLMC-EzF56h2dhHpW6Q < Link To http://www.youtube.com/wa...SOHLLMC-EzF56h2dhHpW6Q shows an Aristo gp40 and usa trains gp38 working together in the first half. For the second half I put two usat locos on the front and a third one in middle. Amazingly this run round and round with no problems. I do worry about the strain this load puts on everything so although nothing has broken yet I don't run trains this long very often.

Best thing is to experiment - you can't do much harm.

 

[maxi-model]

Anybody running US outline diesel electrics from USAT and Aristocraft , e.g. F3's, PA's, etc', will regularly be running anything up to what are effectevly 4 seperate non co-ordinated powered loco's - as in an A-B-B-A unit lash up. No problem so long as your controller can handle the total amps drawn by the combined loco's.

When I'm running Rio Grande freight train on narrow gauge style - one in front, one in the middle and one at the back I test the reletive speeds of the loco's on one section of line and the fastest goes up front, next in the middle and slowest at the back. This ordering is particularly important when you are running tender loco's such as K-27's and Connies. Keeps it all nicely stretched out. And I have a bit of a gradient on my line. Usually works a treat but then I have a 20 amp Crest power supply.

Max.

 

[Neil Robinson]

Some time ago, about 1980 if I recall correctly, I was involved with a G scale portable exhibition layout with a steeply graded branch. This used two locos with different speeds to advantage. The faster loco would take the train up the branch and slow down on the gradient allowing the slower banker to catch up and perform its banking duties. There were no hooks in the LGB couplings on both the banker and rear of the train so when the train accelerated at the top of the hill it prototypically left the banker behind.