12-volt smoke generator compatible with LGB 0-4-0 Porter?

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Lylat1an

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I would like to replace the stock smoke generator in my LGB 0-4-0 Porter with one that can be natively controlled by my DCC decoder.

The decoder will output approximately 12.5 volts DC on the function lines.

Does anyone know a compatible model that I might be able to buy in the United States?
 
Like I said, if you will drive it directly from the decoder, call an installer and find a USA Trains unit like I showed in my video.

Or you could look on ebay:
www.ebay.com

USA Trains Smoke Unit from GP40 (wires, fluid area) G Scale Model Train Part NEW | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for USA Trains Smoke Unit from GP40 (wires, fluid area) G Scale Model Train Part NEW at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!
www.ebay.com

I believe you could get one from a battery installer for $15-$20... I got mine free by the way...

Try Remote Control of New England, Don Sweet.

That's the smallest rugged unit (you did go to my smoke units page right?)

Greg
 
The large scale decoders that I've looked through would require new equipment to program. Also, my project budget has decreased so I'm sticking with a Soundtraxx TSU-4400 for now because it's inexpensive and I'm used to programming their decoders with my existing equipment.

(I know you don't have a high opinion of Soundtraxx, but I can always install a better decoder later.)

None of the Soundtraxx decoders support smoke generator fans/pulses though, so for now I'm looking for a simple 12v replacement.
 
Try to find a used Aristo smoke unit, that will work from track voltage DC or DCC. It won't smoke like the video I showed but it is indeed fan driven, and will be much better than the simple heating element ones that the smoke just drifts from.

Be sure to get the one I showed in my web page I linked to, it's rectangular and has a small fan on top.

A helpful hint about me: when I have an opinion, I will state it as such, when I state FACTS, I will also state it as such. The FACT is that the Soundtraxx TSU-4400 will not run at high DCC voltages is not in dispute, so be sure you stay around 19v DCC or lower. Typical large scale DCC voltages approach 24 volts. Also realize that this is really an O scale decoder, that can be used on "some" G scale locos.

Best of luck.
 
Greg Elmassian said:
Try to find a used Aristo smoke unit, that will work from track voltage DC or DCC. It won't smoke like the video I showed but it is indeed fan driven, and will be much better than the simple heating element ones that the smoke just drifts from.

Be sure to get the one I showed in my web page I linked to, it's rectangular and has a small fan on top.

A helpful hint about me: when I have an opinion, I will state it as such, when I state FACTS, I will also state it as such. The FACT is that the Soundtraxx TSU-4400 will not run at high DCC voltages is not in dispute, so be sure you stay around 19v DCC or lower. Typical large scale DCC voltages approach 24 volts. Also realize that this is really an O scale decoder, that can be used on "some" G scale locos.

Best of luck.
Click to expand...
Thank you.

My NCE PowerCab is a 13.8v DCC system, and the TSU-4400 outputs track voltage minus 1.5 volts. So I'm working with about 12-12.5 volts.
 
Yes, I am aware of that limitation: I only run one locomotive at a time on my layout anyway (Which is essentially just a loop) and I've read that this loco's motor should only need about 1 amp. I'm sure my system can handle that plus the lights.

As for the output statements: I want to control the smoke generator from a function so I can have it disabled by default, yet have the option to turn it on if it ever visits a more powerful layout.


I've also read that I can use what I think was a relay to have the decoder control a higher-voltage circuit from another power source, but I'd like to keep this build simple.
 
OK, you may not realize the smoke will draw at least an amp itself? With the motor, smoke unit and a few LEDs you are over the design current of your NCEsystem.

Also, the Aristo smoke unit uses a switching power supply, so will draw more current at lower voltages.

If you want good smoke, you need to budget 1 amp best case for your fan driven smoke unit, and I'm referring to your opening post, where the goal was a lot of smoke.

I would suggest a few things in your setup:

1. buy a 5 amp booster from Tam Valley
2. buy an inexpensive 5 amp, 18 volt regulated DC power supply (laptop, cheap on ebay or Amazon).

Now you have 5 amps and about 18 volts DCC to the rails, you will not be overheating your PowerCab, and your G scale locos will run much better and you won't be starving for amps or volts.

For the loco, put a relay (with snubbing diode) on the function output of the decoder, and switch track voltage to the smoke unit with the relay.

This will work very well.

Greg

p.s. here is a link to a small portable system based on the powercab with the 5 amp booster.

Portable NCE System

Greg Elmassian web site on large scale trains and garden railroads, cigars, and computers
elmassian.com elmassian.com


DSC00323.JPG
 
Thanks, Greg. I wasn't aware that a booster could be obtained for under $100, let alone be 'portable'.

But yes, I am aware that a smoke unit won't be a good idea without a booster on my layout. That's why I wanted it to be turned off in the decoder by default.


But now that I think about it, I suppose if I ever ran it another layout there would likely be a higher track voltage which would burn up a 12v unit.

I'm going to have to think about this.
 
Yes, the Aristo unit has a built in voltage regulator. The simple heater elements like the Seuth not only have a not-to-exceed voltage, without a constant voltage, the smoke drops off.

If you were willing to accept the lesser smoke output (which is contrary to your originally stated goal) then the 5 volt unit with a 5 volt regulator (really use a 6 volt) properly head sinked would be the way, that way you could be running it full blast at 8 volts track voltage. Just a simple 3 terminal series regulator.

If you have the room you can buy one of those inexpensive DC to DC inverters and set the desired output voltage, and they are cheap too if you can wait for them to come from China.

Greg
 
The LGB porter does not really have room for a motorized smoke unit. There is a weight in the boiler and another on top of the boiler. I would install a 12 volt seuth in place of the 18 volt LGB smoke unit, however the starting current of these smoke units are high I measured 300ma) and current drops a lot (under 200ma) after the element heats up. So tie the 12 volt unit to your DCC track power via an on/off manual switch.
 
I'm thinking it would be simpler to omit a smoke unit for now, and instead mount a speaker in the stack.

At least until a fan-driven unit is available in the Porter's size.
 
I've decided to wire this locomotive with a switch so it can run either on DCC from the track, or a Dead Rail DCC receiver and battery in a tender.

The system I plan to use has 14.8v batteries available, so that will make the decoder output just over 12v to a smoke generator when the function is activated.

Does anyone know which Seuthe model might be a compatible 12-13v replacement for the 5v one that came with my LGB 0-4-0 Porter?
 
What are you going to do to handle the different track voltage of DCC? It won't be 14.8 volts.

Here's my suggestion: use a 5 volt seuth unit...

Wire to an adjustable DC to DC inverter/regulator set to about 6 volts.... (and being adjustable you can fine tune it)

Power from ANY DC supply 4 volts or over.... (the DCC decoder will have rectified track voltage DC output, if not $2 for a full wave bridge convert DCC track voltage to DC)

There are MANY of these on the market, but I liked the ones with the readout:

Simpler, will work on any voltage, regulated, so constant smoke, adjustable to your taste (normally 6 to 6.5 volts)

Greg
 
I'm afraid that my loco barely has room for the decoder, let alone anything else in the boiler cavity.

On the rare occasion that I'll want to activate the smoke unit, my plan is to use battery power and not have to worry about track voltage.
 
You brought up running on DCC in post #15.... you can't do that without a decoder....

Now you say no room for the decoder in post #17

But in post #1 you say you want to control the smoke unit with "my DCC decoder"

Smoke unit in stack or speaker? (Post #13)

So what is it DC or DCC or battery or all of the above?

How about the electronics in the tender or the loco?




Seriously:

1. use your HO Soundtraxx decoder
2. put it in the tender if you cannot fit it in the loco.
3. use a relay to switch the DCC track voltage for the smoke unit from the decoder if the decoder cannot handle the current
4. use the 5v seuth unit, add the simple voltage regulator, set to 6 volts

You are jumping around on what you are going to do almost every post. There is a way to make things work, but honestly stick to one set of requirements.

Greg
 
Sorry for the confusion, perhaps I can clear it up.


Battery power will be run through a Tam Valley DRS1 DCC-over-radio receiver.

The decoder (Which is large scale, not HO) will fit in the boiler cavity, but with hardly any space to spare.

The speaker I'll now be using is a "Mega bass" model that is just over an inch square. (Won't fit in the stack, so it's going in the cab)

I want as few wires as possible going to the tender. The backup light and power connections will already make a minimum of 4.


While I very much appreciate your voltage regulator suggestion, I don't know if I can hide one in the loco along with the decoder.

Would it not be simpler just to swap out the smoke unit with one that will run directly off the decoder when I activate the function? (Unless, of course, a 12-13 volt unit would melt the plastic stack?)
 
OK, so the DCC vs battery is not there... it is Battery powered DCC decoder, That eliminates the need for a regulator, since there is only one configuration not two.

Are you still using the TSU-4400? If so it says 400 milliamps each function output. The higher voltage seuthe units may draw in the neighborhood of 200 ma, so you might be ok.

some helpful information: wiring a Seuthe smoke generator in a DCC/Sound equipted engine? - Model Railroader Magazine - Model Railroading, Model Trains, Reviews, Track Plans, and Forums

read the post from Tom M about jacketed vs non jacketed seuthe units....

I think you want the seuthe #7, 11-16 volts... 140 ma, should be fine right to the decoder. (for example the 6-7 volt unit draws 800 ma, so you see what I was concerned about)

Smoke Unit for O/G/G1 (11-16v)-Seuthe-7 | Gaugemaster

Gaugemaster:SEUTHE NO7 Smoke Unit for O/G/G1 (11-16v) - Seuthe 7
www.gaugemasterretail.com www.gaugemasterretail.com

Greg
 
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