Is there a prototype for LGB 2x15x 0-4-0 tender loco?

idlemarvel · 18 Mar 2018

Is there a prototype on which the LGB 2x15x range is based? (20150, 20151, 2015D, 21151, 22150, 22155)

The blurb in the catalogs say something about KPEV (Prussian) or alternatively "Small steam locomotives coupled to a tender were used on the DR narrow gauge lines in Mecklenburg-Western Pomerania". The LOK book says these are 750mm narrow gauge but I can't find a reference to them anywhere in books or Internet and the running numbers (99 2015, 99 2815, 99 2816) seem to be fictitious.

If anyone can provide any info or point me at a source I'd be grateful.

stockers · 18 Mar 2018

No, not exactly. but it is representative of loads of feldbahn (field railway) locos that existed in Germany in the first half of the last century. Also - lots of locos pushed into war service bore a similar appearance.

PhilP · 18 Mar 2018

I initially thought this was close, but it is 6-coupled.

http://www.internationalsteam.co.uk/trains/poland14.htm

stockers · 18 Mar 2018

Nice link - I love that 0-8-0

itsmcgee · 19 Mar 2018

This is close

Lobethalbahn2 · 19 Mar 2018

Henschel Polish T2

idlemarvel · 19 Mar 2018

Thanks everyone. The post by @lobelthalbahn2 seems the closest match so far. I will do some more digging.

Zerogee · 19 Mar 2018

Lobethalbahn2 said:
View attachment 234711 Henschel Polish T2

Interesting that the cab on that T2 looks more like a standard Stainz than a 2x15x..... anyone know if the cab is completely open-backed, or with a central door....?

Jon.

ebay mike · 19 Mar 2018

Zerogee said:
Interesting that the cab on that T2 looks more like a standard Stainz than a 2x15x..... anyone know if the cab is completely open-backed, or with a central door....?

Jon.

MTheStrong · 19 Mar 2018

This link may be useful: http://www.die-kartonmodellbauer.de...ur-dampflok-bn2t-henschel-t2-71-modelik-1-25/

Zerogee · 19 Mar 2018

MTheStrong said:
This link may be useful: http://www.die-kartonmodellbauer.de...ur-dampflok-bn2t-henschel-t2-71-modelik-1-25/

Thanks, very interesting.....

Jon.

idlemarvel · 19 Mar 2018

Yes the LGB model seems to have been inspired by a cardboard model kit! Or vice versa.

MTheStrong · 19 Mar 2018

I have found this link which may be useful: http://modellbauer.forum-aktiv.com/t5356-schmalspurlok-bn2t-t-henschel-t2-71-u-wagon-von-modelik

Lobethalbahn2 · 19 Mar 2018

Here is a link, unfortunately my Polish is not what it used to be.

http://tomi.holdys.pl/index2.php?desc=on&par=t2-71

However, Stockers earlier observation about military origins is correct, as it made its way to Poland via the not necessarily good offices of the Heeresfeldbahn (Army Field Railways) in 1941.

Lobethalbahn2 · 21 Mar 2018

My last posts on this thread were off my phone and I didn't have access to this resource. The page is from a special issue of Eisenbahn Journal magazine "Dampflok Report #8 Schmalspur-Lokomotiven". Hopefully the pdf will upload successfully (edit: it did

). It is in German, but to summarise, the Mecklenburg-Pommeranian Narrow Gauge Railway did have a small tender 0-4-0 loco numbered 99 3001. It was also built by Henschel (like the Polish T2). It certainly is the closest equivalent of the LGB model - but by no means an exact model.

idlemarvel · 21 Mar 2018

Thanks

MTheStrong and

Lobethalbahn2 especially, I think that has nailed it.

I think I would use the phrase "inspired by" rather than "modelled on" but this is from the early days of LGB when scale modelling was even less of a priority!

.

The picture posted by

ebay mike has two lights at the back (can't see the front) and a green livery which is more like the prototype. I assume this a "pimped up" version Mike?

The LOK book should be corrected as it refers to these as 750mm gauge.

Zerogee · 21 Mar 2018

idlemarvel said:
........The picture posted by ebay mike has two lights at the back (can't see the front) and a green livery which is more like the prototype. I assume this a "pimped up" version Mike?........

I think the one in Mike's photo is of the assembled cardboard model, not the LGB one.....
The early LGB version in the green KPEV livery is very attractive, but I think it is physically the same model as the black DR versions.

Jon.

Lobethalbahn2 · 22 Mar 2018

I think in the case the 2x15x model LGB were applying their infamous rubber ruler to more than just scale. Given that it dates back to the very early years of LGB it is clear that there was an attempt to create a range of models with largely common pool of components to lower costs. If the model bore a passing resemblance to a given prototype, so much the better.

Zerogee said:
The early LGB version in the green KPEV livery is very attractive, but I think it is physically the same model as the black DR versions.
Jon.

At least in the early years, LGB seemed a little keener to dress up its models in more colourful liveries. At this point when LGB was still conceived and marketed as a toy train, I think accurate liveries were less important to the Richters than something that was eye-catching. I also think the application of the more decorative, late 19th/early 20th century liveries might have reflected the mindset of West Germans in the 1960s and 1970s. These liveries were linked to a less controversial and contested period of German history, rather than associating with German narrow gauge railways in the liveries of the Third Reich or Communist East Germany. There does seem to be a trend of turn of the century looking locos and rolling stock in the 1970s - for example the 2x15x, the steam tram, the 3050 Abteilwagen/Compartment coaches, the Barmer coaches and the postal wagen.

As far as the KPEV livery goes, while undoubtedly attractive, I don't think it has any historical or prototypical precedent on this type of loco. Unlike Württemberg, Saxony and Bavaria, the Prussian State Railways don't seem to have gone in for narrow gauge railways. So while narrow gauge railways were built in Prussia, they were not administered by the KPEV, but by private companies and/or provincial or local authorities.

Paradise · 24 Mar 2018

Orenstein & Koppel made some similar looking locomotives.
Silver Dollar City theme park has a bunch of 2-4-0 ones.

stevedenver · 27 Mar 2018

I cant supply a pic, but theres a dead ringer for the 2017, sans tendr, in the denver forney museum. O and K too. Large balloon type stack with saw tooth edge, ob the rear , toward the cab, very river boat i think. Green too, if i recall.

Prototypical or not, i love these locos, if simply due to being one of the few tendr locos lgb offered.
And, imho, with a touch of added lead, great performers. Still one of my favs.

Of these euro / western versions,
I have 2 green, 1 black, 2 yellow, and one.....mauve...my fav. Np reason, really.

Is there a prototype for LGB 2x15x 0-4-0 tender loco?

Neither idle nor a marvel

Trains, aircraft, models, walking, beer, travel

G Scale, 7/8th's, Electronics

Trains, aircraft, models, walking, beer, travel

Registered

Registered

Neither idle nor a marvel

Clencher's Bogleman

Retired, but still hoarding. (GOF)

Registered

Clencher's Bogleman

Neither idle nor a marvel

Registered

Registered

Registered

Attachments

Neither idle nor a marvel

Clencher's Bogleman

Registered

Registered

Registered