What address for eMOTION S decoder when connecting via SUSI

[Ralphmp]

I'm pretty sure this must have been covered previously but I can't find it using the search tool.

I'm adding sound via a Massoth eMOTION S decoder to a loco which has a Massoth L decoder already installed. I will be connecting the 2 decoders using the SUSI interface. Maybe it's me, but I can't make much sense out of the Massoth manuals (eMOTION S installation manual and CV Settings manual for the S decoder) on whather I should set both decoders to the same address when using the SUSI icable or whther this is a big no-no. I think they're telling me that

1. if I DON'T use the SUSI interface then the 2 decoders must have the same address, and to ensure I can change CVs correctly once the decoders are installed (e.g. via POM), then I need to set a valid long address using CV107 & CV108 (using same method of address calculation as for CV17 & 18); the manual mentions a default of 320
   
2. if I DO use the SUSI interface then the address of the eMOTION S doesn't matter as the key decoder functions are accessed via CVs 900 to 979.
3. Whichever method I use to connect the 2 decoders, if I connect the S decoder directly to my Massoth PC interface to programme it, I set the functions I want using CVs 1 to 236

In other words, to set up the S decoder before installing it - e.g. to adjust the volume level - I use CVs 1 to 236 (for volume setting this would be CV 200), but after installation when the 2 decoders are linked via the SUSI cable, if I want to adjust the volume again by POM or putting the loco on a programming track, I'd select the loco using the address of the L driving decoder and then use CV902 to set the volume on the S sound decoder (CV902 is the one that equates to CV 200 according to the manual).

If Im correct then this seems a straightforward way of doing things, but it's a big "IF" as I don't want to have to take the loco apart and reprogramme one or both decoders separately if I b*gger things up.

Can anyone confirm I've got this right, please, and if not, correct my miunderstandings?

Thanks in advance

 

[Cliff George]

I don't see anywhere in the Massoth Manual where it says CVs in the normal CV range automatically get copied to the SUSI CV range (i.e. CV 200 is automatically copied to 902), although it may do. I don't know.

It I wanted to program the Massoth S before installation then I would wire it up outside of the engine in exactly the same way I was going to wire it up inside the engine. So if I intended to connect it via the SUSI bus (a good idea) then it would also be connected via the SUSI bus when it was programmed beforehand.

Having said that I don't see the need to program the Massoth S and whatever driving decoder it was connected to before installation when connected via SUSI, because effectively they just become one decoder with an extended CV range.

 

[Ralphmp]

Thanks Cliff. Maybe I'm over complicating things. Just being ultra careful as whenever I've tried to programme an S decoder in the past I've not had much luck doing it when it was connected to a driving decoder either via SUSI or via the 2 track power leads.

I'll do some more checking tomorrow with the 2 decoders connected and see what CV data I get.

 

[Ralphmp]

Sorry, meant to mention as well that the bit about 900 range CVs is right at the back of the Configuration guide for the Massoth S, LS, XLS, etc. decoders using version 4 firmware.

 

[PhilP]

You *really* need some way of 'turning off' each decoder, in turn, for programming..
Supposedly, you can use the programming lock CV's, but nothing beats a switch in one of the power-leads to each decoder..
YMMV, of course.

 

[Ralphmp]

Good suggestion Phil. I'll have think about how I can do that before I put everything back together. Thanks.

 

[PhilP]

Good suggestion Phil. I'll have think about how I can do that before I put everything back together. Thanks.

If you do not want to make holes, and mount switches..
you can use a couple of (normally closed) reed-switches, somewhere unobtrusive (they can be almost anywhere, but NOT running-board or below. - Think track-magnets!
You can then use a magnet to open the reed for the odd times you need to program one of the decoders.

Keep a 'card-index', or notes somewhere, of that you have done and where the *%$ switches are, for future reference.
PhilP.

 

[muns]

Phil,

When using 1, you can also use the "Programming lock" value to enable/disable programming for each decoder - it does work despite what other people say. Only effective if all the decoders have that ability though.

When using the SUSI connection, ensure that both decoders are using the SUSI protocol Also do not use the brown/white cables on the S decoder.

 

[Zerogee]

Phil,

When using 1, you can also use the "Programming lock" value to enable/disable programming for each decoder - it does work despite what other people say. Only effective if all the decoders have that ability though.

When using the SUSI connection, ensure that both decoders are using the SUSI protocol Also do not use the brown/white cables on the S decoder.

Mark, please bear with me if this seems a stupid question.... as I understand it, the programming lock works by setting different values in CVs 15 and 16 (when the two values are the same, the lock is "off", when they are different it is "on") - so, if the decoder is "unlocked" and you then "lock" it by changing either CV15 or CV16 to a different value, how do you then UNLOCK it again if you can't access the CVs to change them....? Or are CV15 and CV16 themselves somehow exempted from the locking feature? I have the feeling that I'm missing something rather fundamental.....

Jon.

 

[Ralphmp]

Mark, please bear with me if this seems a stupid question.... as I understand it, the programming lock works by setting different values in CVs 15 and 16 (when the two values are the same, the lock is "off", when they are different it is "on") - so, if the decoder is "unlocked" and you then "lock" it by changing either CV15 or CV16 to a different value, how do you then UNLOCK it again if you can't access the CVs to change them....? Or are CV15 and CV16 themselves somehow exempted from the locking feature? I have the feeling that I'm missing something rather fundamental.....

Jon.

Well I tried this out and can confirm that if you lock the decoder you can't write to CVs BUT you can unlock it OK. I did this using the template that comes with the Massoth Service Tool - the first tab (labelled "Generally" has the option to set Programming Lock as Open or Closed so I used this; not sure whether it updated CV 15 or 16.

 

[Ralphmp]

Thanks Cliff. Maybe I'm over complicating things. Just being ultra careful as whenever I've tried to programme an S decoder in the past I've not had much luck doing it when it was connected to a driving decoder either via SUSI or via the 2 track power leads.

I'll do some more checking tomorrow with the 2 decoders connected and see what CV data I get.

OK so here's where I'm at:

STEP 1, checking decoders' behaviour using Massoth Service Tool and PC Module

• Linked the L and S decoders using the SUSI cable
• Connected L decoder to PC Module and opened up the Massoth Service Tool
• Selected template "EMOTION S > 3.5 VIA SUSI"
• Did a Read All CVs
• Template populated fine and CVs are in the 900 range
• Updated Total Volume setting (now CV 902)
• All OK
• Selected templote "EMOTION L"
• Did a Read All CVs
• Template populated fine, including sound CVs (e.g. Sound On/Off Key setting - CV 147)
• Changed a non-sound CV - light dimming value (CV50)
• All Ok

STEP 2, checking decoders' behaviour when track power is applied

• Attached L decoder to loco motor block and S decoder to loco speaker
• Applied power to motor block via Massoth Central Station
• Selected L decoder address on my Navigator
• Ran forwards and backwars, turned lights on/off, turned sound on/off, selected individual sounds
• All works as expected
• Did a POM to change Chuff Setting in what is now CV904
• Worked OK

So everything is behaving as Cliff described in his post above - by joining the L an S decoders via the SUSI cable, they work together as if they are a single decoder. The L decoder provides the address to access/control the loco when in us,e and the address of the S decoder is not relevant.

I just need to remember that if I do any more adjustments to the S decoder via POM (e.g. further chuff rate tuning), then I need to use the table at the back of the S Config Manual to get the correct 900 range CV).

Thanks for all the helpful comments - hopefully as well as answering my query this thread will be useful for others in the future.

Best wishes