Welsh or Anthracite coal?

[jabsteam]

I'm new to 16mm coal fired live steam and was wondering what the preferred fuel for these little dragons is?
Getting on the list for a DJB Robert kit, but have been into 1.5 scale for decades.

 

[Ferrysteam]

Welsh steam coal was the best coal for GWR engines so I suppose that would apply to miniatures.

 

[alec dawe]

Not sure about Welsh coal on a model engine. Welsh steam coal has some strange burning characteristics, in the the coal, on heating, swells first, forming a sort of spongy mass as the volatiles are released, before really burning.
This might not be the best state of affairs for a small engine, fine on a grate designed with welsh coal in mind.
Personally, I'd suggest using a hard coal, Yorkshire cobble. No idea what equivalent you'd fine in the USA, but you need something with high heat content, and as low an ash content as possible, with also al little tendency to form clinker as you can find.

 

[tramcar trev]

Lignite ( brown coal) or coked lignite ( char) seems to be preferred in Australia for small fireboxes, dosen't clinker, low ash and easy to "fire" i.e. little use of fire irons necessary... I used it in my steam launches with great success, though I did have a bag of proper coal to throw on when clouds of black smoke were considered essential....

 

[kovacjr]

Welsh Coal is your best bet. If you are in the UK it is easy to obtain. If you are in the US, I stock it here in New Jersey. Shipping small 22lbs and large boxes up to 55lbs.


Jason

http://www.thetraindepartment.com < Link To www.thetraindepartment.com

 

[jabsteam]

What size is the coal, Jason?
Is it about baked bean size?

 

[maxi-model]

Would DJB not be able to advise you on the best source, as they have to test an run their own designs and would know what they work best with. I have seen suppliers at the 16mm NGM show selling the stuff in the right size too, so the 16mm NGM website supplier list might be a port of call to you. And speaking of things nautical............Tag are you out there for a little advise on this one ?
Max.
Ah, just noted you are in US. What are surface mail rates like from UK ?

 

[400Parker]

I was talking to Tag about this subject last week and in his opinion anthracite is best for our little dragons because of the higher heat content. Welsh steam coal is better suited to the bigger locos. The anthracite I use is described as 'grains' (rather than 'beans' which are bigger) and a 25kg sack from my local coal merchant cost £9.95. This is the stuff that is used in domestic solid fuel boilers. In the UK, Maidstone Engineering Supplies sells 20kg of Welsh steam coal for £13.50.
I run both my DJB locos on anthracite.
Cheers!
Steve

 

[garrymartin]

Is there not a source of anthracite or a similar coal in the USA from one of their many coal mines? it surely must be cheaper than shipping over the Welsh stuff.

 

[Fairlie]

Trev, are you talking about model steam launches, or full sized ones?

 

[kovacjr]

I have a bean size here but the bean is not relative to an actual bean. I have Welsh Anthracite, the steam coal is far too soft to travel. The larger pcs will be broken in half usually for a small firebox. Used as is on a K28 coal fired or similar. We have also used it on 1" and 1.5" locos with no problems of being too small.

Mailing coal to the US straight up is horrible. I freighted a ton over to the US and have been repacking into 22lb large USPS flat rate boxes. The next best coal is Pocahontas from WVA but half the BTU output 14,ooo vs 32,000 BTU on the Welsh but it still has clinkers and you need to clean the small flues more often. Ive read that you need a 1/2" flue minimum for most decent US coal otherwise you plug smaller ones in short time 30-60mins. Not so with the Welsh.

Here is the spec sheet on my coal:

Size (mm) 22.4 x 12.5
Moisture (%) 4.0
Ash(%) 4.5
Sulphur(%) 0.90
Chlorine(%)0.03
Net CV(KJ/kg) 31880
Dry ash free CV = 35740 kj/kg
Volatile Matter (%) 6.50


Jay
http://www.thetraindepartment.com < Link To www.thetraindepartment.com

 

[GTB]

The next best coal is Pocahontas from WVA but half the BTU output 14,ooo vs 32,000 BTU on the Welsh but it still has clinkers and you need to clean the small flues more often.

Jason,

Sorry to be pedantic, but you are selling US coal short. The calorific value of coal (or any fuel) is quoted in units of energy/units of mass. Usually kj/kg in metric units, BTU/lb in english units.

If you convert the 31880 kj/kg in your spec sheet into BTU/lb the welsh anthracite comes out at 13,700 BTU/lb,, which is typical of a good steam coal and much the same as the WVA coal. Old british loco engineering textbooks quote 15,000+ BTU/lb for best Welsh steam coal, but those seams are probably long since worked out.......

I'd agree, from bitter experience in the ride on scales, that it's the ash content of the coal and it's tendency to clinker that is critical for small coal fired boilers. Lower calorific value isn't overly important, it just means you use a bit more coal in a session.

Regards,
Graeme

 

[tagorton]

I'm new to 16mm coal fired live steam and was wondering what the preferred fuel for these little dragons is?
Getting on the list for a DJB Robert kit, but have been into 1.5 scale for decades.

Paul Bailey recommends anthracite as does John Shawe. I have examples of both these marques and largely do as recommended. I do add a bit of smelly coal once the fire is deep and well established ? just for the olfactory experience. Welsh steam is fine although I have found that it does not burn so hot and so I always start with anthracite.

 

[jabsteam]

OK, thanks for all of the info, guys!
The majority consensus is for Anthracite. Which is good, as it is more readily available over here.
A local Ranch Store has Anthracite in the baked bean size for $18 a 75 pound bag.
And I like the idea of adding a few chunks of regular coal (which I still have plenty of) for the smoke/aroma.

In my 1.5 engines I used to burn Pocahontas and/or "Forgers" coal. Both clinkered easily, plugged the flues easily, and left a lot of ash which if not dumped frequently would burn the grates up. But what an aroma it had! And if over-fired would produce a greenish black smoke that photographed splendidly!
Finding decent coal to burn became such a hassle that I converted the last engine I had to burn fuel oil or diesel. Big mistake, as riding behind in the exhaust plume was not pleasant, was like riding behind an old diesel bus.

Cheers,
Jim B.